What's the difference in Manure?

[mac1911]

I once got an offer of cow manure for my allotment from the dairy farm down the road "£8 for a trailer load". I was expecting something behind a landrover, got a tractor pulling a closed trailer about thirty foot long by about ten foot tall, Worked all weekend and covered the entire allotment about a foot deep.
Heed that warning about seed going through pigs, a friend grew the best crop of thistles I have ever seen.

I get weeds on my asphalt driveway!
I will grab a few lbs of this stuff.
I keep hearing of this aminopyralids contamination in manure. This manure pile is pretty popular and I think the word would get out if there where problems?

Although After reading of this I used some compost years ago from the local landfill facility. Used it in some flower beds. Nothing I would grow I ended up digging out about 12 inches of material and replacing it all is well after

 

[Chuck]

ANYONE who uses manure and/or straw/hay had better be very careful about using it. Most hay farmers use a herbicide called picloram or a herbicide with piclorams cousins in it. These herbicides are pervasive. They last for a long time, in some instances for years. And not only is the hay or straw affected but the manure is contaminated as well. A cow or horse eats the hay treated with these herbicides and the chemicals in the herbicide are not broken down in the animals digestive system. These chemicals pass through the animal and the manure is therefore contaminated. There is a simple test one can do to determine if the manure/hay/ compost is safe or not. Just get a container and fill it half full of whatever you are testing and then finish filling it up with water. Let it sit for 2 or 3 days and then pour the liquid onto a broadleaf weed such as a dandelion. If the weed still looks completely healthy after 2 or 3 days it is safe to use. If a gardener has had the misfortune to have spread these chemicals into his garden there is a remedy.
There is a company located in Hondo Texas called Medina Inc. This company makes many great organic products but its main concern is soil remediation. They travel world wide cleaning up toxic waste sites of all kinds. They have a product on the market for commercial growers and home gardeners that will clean up toxic substances such as picloram and its derivatives. It is called Medina Soil Activator. This is not an overnight cure but it does work.

 

[Marck]

Yes I agree, don't knowingly put Picloram into your soil, but assuming such contamination is like tossing out the baby out with the bathwater. Picloram and it's chemical relatives have a half life is between six months and three years depending on temperatures light exposure, and the amount of bio-cycling Also, it is a broad-leaved herbicide, so it could be used to fertilize a lawn or grass crop, such as a grain or hay. You could even use such manure to generate grass biomass while the picloram breaks down. Each pass through a system will break it down faster. Of course, this would be a non-chemical bioremediation method to try in a grass agricultural system.

 

[mac1911]

Yikes, nice stuff.
Looks like I will just plant some winter rye and till that in . Maybe stick with synthetic fertilizers. They sound safer at this point.

 

[Meadowlark]

... Most hay farmers use a herbicide called picloram or a herbicide with piclorams cousins in it.

No one I know around here, including myself, uses that stuff...so saying "most" seems arguable. Otherwise excellent post.

Good to know that Medina Soil Activator will counteract the herbicide. Manure is worth the risk, IMO, but the test that Chuck recommends would be an excellent precaution.

 

[Chuck]

Yikes, nice stuff.
Looks like I will just plant some winter rye and till that in . Maybe stick with synthetic fertilizers. They sound safer at this point.

Commercial organic manure fertilizers are NOT just raw manure. There is no chance of anything going wrong with it, even using too much is not a problem. Synthetic fertilizers are much much easier and prone to mess things up than organics. These dangerous herbicides are in raw products such as in non pasteurized horse or cow manure based composts and raw manures, not commercially processed fertilizer.

 

[Chuck]

No one I know around here, including myself, uses that stuff...so saying "most" seems arguable. Otherwise excellent post.

Good to know that Medina Soil Activator will counteract the herbicide. Manure is worth the risk, IMO, but the test that Chuck recommends would be an excellent precaution.

Perhaps I should have said many, but around here ALL of the commercial growers use picloram or a derivative.

 

[mac1911]

Commercial organic manure fertilizers are NOT just raw manure. There is no chance of anything going wrong with it, even using too much is not a problem. Synthetic fertilizers are much much easier and prone to mess things up than organics. These dangerous herbicides are in raw products such as in non pasteurized horse or cow manure based composts and raw manures, not commercially processed fertilizer.

Now im on a tear , thinking of what regulates these companies and what does it take to be organic in the commercial fertilizer/compost bagged stuff.
Will be starting here,

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Compost_FINAL.pdf

 

[Chuck]

Now im on a tear , thinking of what regulates these companies and what does it take to be organic in the commercial fertilizer/compost bagged stuff.
Will be starting here,

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Compost_FINAL.pdf

I think that what you want to research is OMRI.

 

[mac1911]

I think that what you want to research is OMRI.

thank you

I really dont want to research anything but looks like there a reason to.
I called one of the local sellers of bulk compost and asked them where is it from, does it get any testing is it PH adjusted.
She just hung up. Fun stuff
Went and priced out some bagged stuff and at the labels recommended amount , be close to $150 in product. Which translates into the most expensive tomatoes for next season...... So glad I dont really keep tabs on $$$ in and a ROI calculation....fun stuff

 

[Chuck]

thank you

I really dont want to research anything but looks like there a reason to.
I called one of the local sellers of bulk compost and asked them where is it from, does it get any testing is it PH adjusted.
She just hung up. Fun stuff
Went and priced out some bagged stuff and at the labels recommended amount , be close to $150 in product. Which translates into the most expensive tomatoes for next season...... So glad I dont really keep tabs on $$$ in and a ROI calculation....fun stuff

What is this 150$ stuff? Here in Texas I bitch and moan when a 40lb bag of poultry manure based fertilizer costs more than 20$. It is usually about 18$ for top grade fertilizer and 12$ for top grade compost and potting soil, all in 40lb bags. And all OMRI rated.

 

[Marck]

Buying compost in bulk loads is the way to go, but not from that lady who hung up on you!

 

[mac1911]

What is this 150$ stuff? Here in Texas I bitch and moan when a 40lb bag of poultry manure based fertilizer costs more than 20$. It is usually about 18$ for top grade fertilizer and 12$ for top grade compost and potting soil, all in 40lb bags. And all OMRI rated.

I forget the brand but it was aged compost for gardens. Label said 10bags for my needs at $13.99 ea plus tax
Calling around to other places for bulk they could not tell me the source of their manure or any of they stuff in the compost

 

[Chuck]

I forget the brand but it was aged compost for gardens. Label said 10bags for my needs at $13.99 ea plus tax
Calling around to other places for bulk they could not tell me the source of their manure or any of they stuff in the compost

The main thing is to make sure that the product is OMRI rated. It will be on the bag somewhere. Bulk composts should always be tested before incorporating into the garden. When a company makes bulk compost the materials usually come from a myriad of places and is impossible to test everything. Batches of bagged compost are tested at the composting site but in rare cases a batch or portion of a batch will slip through as in what happened to Dirt Mechanic and the Black Kow compost. This is why I test a small amount out of each bag. Buying in unbagged bulk quantities numerous tests should be done. Bulk compost, AFAIK is never tested.
I purchase compost every 3rd year. I find that enough of the material in bagged compost will last a maximum of 3 years in order to maintain a good percentage of organic matter in my garden soil for growing vegetables. I don't grow anything I can't eat so I can't attest to growing anything else and the amount of organic matter needed for that.

 

[Marck]

OMRI is an organic certification program, which is fine as far as it goes, but certification does add costs which raises prices. There is a lot of material available that could be certified but isn't, and a lot of mateial that might not even qualify for certification, but will stillnot cause any ill effects to garden soil.

In my experience, soils, compost,s and amendments are usually sold by volume, and should be, because changeable water content will greatly affect weight. I've seen 3 cubic foot bags of soil amendment largely composed of forest product and manure sell for 9 to 12 dollars but I can get a cubic yard of similar material for between 25 to 40.00 including deliver. Even if I compare the lower price of the bagged material and the higher price of the bulk material, the bulk material is half the price. of course the difference can be greater than that,. depending on numerous factors, especially quantity, and quality. However quality itself, can be quite subjective and will depend on usage, aesthetics, and other needs or preferences.

Also, one additional environmental point for bulk compost is it reduces the amount of waste plastic produced (the bags) considerably.

Personally, I buy both bagged and bulk products depending on the material, the quantity I need, and how much I want to store at any one time, but I would prefer to buy bulk more often and do so when the quantity needed makes it cost-effective.