What's the difference in Manure?

[Chuck]

Yikes, nice stuff.
Looks like I will just plant some winter rye and till that in . Maybe stick with synthetic fertilizers. They sound safer at this point.

Commercial organic manure fertilizers are NOT just raw manure. There is no chance of anything going wrong with it, even using too much is not a problem. Synthetic fertilizers are much much easier and prone to mess things up than organics. These dangerous herbicides are in raw products such as in non pasteurized horse or cow manure based composts and raw manures, not commercially processed fertilizer.

 

[Chuck]

No one I know around here, including myself, uses that stuff...so saying "most" seems arguable. Otherwise excellent post.

Good to know that Medina Soil Activator will counteract the herbicide. Manure is worth the risk, IMO, but the test that Chuck recommends would be an excellent precaution.

Perhaps I should have said many, but around here ALL of the commercial growers use picloram or a derivative.

 

[mac1911]

Commercial organic manure fertilizers are NOT just raw manure. There is no chance of anything going wrong with it, even using too much is not a problem. Synthetic fertilizers are much much easier and prone to mess things up than organics. These dangerous herbicides are in raw products such as in non pasteurized horse or cow manure based composts and raw manures, not commercially processed fertilizer.

Now im on a tear , thinking of what regulates these companies and what does it take to be organic in the commercial fertilizer/compost bagged stuff.
Will be starting here,

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Compost_FINAL.pdf

 

[Chuck]

Now im on a tear , thinking of what regulates these companies and what does it take to be organic in the commercial fertilizer/compost bagged stuff.
Will be starting here,

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Compost_FINAL.pdf

I think that what you want to research is OMRI.

 

[mac1911]

I think that what you want to research is OMRI.

thank you

I really dont want to research anything but looks like there a reason to.
I called one of the local sellers of bulk compost and asked them where is it from, does it get any testing is it PH adjusted.
She just hung up. Fun stuff
Went and priced out some bagged stuff and at the labels recommended amount , be close to $150 in product. Which translates into the most expensive tomatoes for next season...... So glad I dont really keep tabs on $$$ in and a ROI calculation....fun stuff

 

[Chuck]

thank you

I really dont want to research anything but looks like there a reason to.
I called one of the local sellers of bulk compost and asked them where is it from, does it get any testing is it PH adjusted.
She just hung up. Fun stuff
Went and priced out some bagged stuff and at the labels recommended amount , be close to $150 in product. Which translates into the most expensive tomatoes for next season...... So glad I dont really keep tabs on $$$ in and a ROI calculation....fun stuff

What is this 150$ stuff? Here in Texas I bitch and moan when a 40lb bag of poultry manure based fertilizer costs more than 20$. It is usually about 18$ for top grade fertilizer and 12$ for top grade compost and potting soil, all in 40lb bags. And all OMRI rated.

 

[Marck]

Buying compost in bulk loads is the way to go, but not from that lady who hung up on you!

 

[mac1911]

What is this 150$ stuff? Here in Texas I bitch and moan when a 40lb bag of poultry manure based fertilizer costs more than 20$. It is usually about 18$ for top grade fertilizer and 12$ for top grade compost and potting soil, all in 40lb bags. And all OMRI rated.

I forget the brand but it was aged compost for gardens. Label said 10bags for my needs at $13.99 ea plus tax
Calling around to other places for bulk they could not tell me the source of their manure or any of they stuff in the compost

 

[Chuck]

I forget the brand but it was aged compost for gardens. Label said 10bags for my needs at $13.99 ea plus tax
Calling around to other places for bulk they could not tell me the source of their manure or any of they stuff in the compost

The main thing is to make sure that the product is OMRI rated. It will be on the bag somewhere. Bulk composts should always be tested before incorporating into the garden. When a company makes bulk compost the materials usually come from a myriad of places and is impossible to test everything. Batches of bagged compost are tested at the composting site but in rare cases a batch or portion of a batch will slip through as in what happened to Dirt Mechanic and the Black Kow compost. This is why I test a small amount out of each bag. Buying in unbagged bulk quantities numerous tests should be done. Bulk compost, AFAIK is never tested.
I purchase compost every 3rd year. I find that enough of the material in bagged compost will last a maximum of 3 years in order to maintain a good percentage of organic matter in my garden soil for growing vegetables. I don't grow anything I can't eat so I can't attest to growing anything else and the amount of organic matter needed for that.

 

[Marck]

OMRI is an organic certification program, which is fine as far as it goes, but certification does add costs which raises prices. There is a lot of material available that could be certified but isn't, and a lot of mateial that might not even qualify for certification, but will stillnot cause any ill effects to garden soil.

In my experience, soils, compost,s and amendments are usually sold by volume, and should be, because changeable water content will greatly affect weight. I've seen 3 cubic foot bags of soil amendment largely composed of forest product and manure sell for 9 to 12 dollars but I can get a cubic yard of similar material for between 25 to 40.00 including deliver. Even if I compare the lower price of the bagged material and the higher price of the bulk material, the bulk material is half the price. of course the difference can be greater than that,. depending on numerous factors, especially quantity, and quality. However quality itself, can be quite subjective and will depend on usage, aesthetics, and other needs or preferences.

Also, one additional environmental point for bulk compost is it reduces the amount of waste plastic produced (the bags) considerably.

Personally, I buy both bagged and bulk products depending on the material, the quantity I need, and how much I want to store at any one time, but I would prefer to buy bulk more often and do so when the quantity needed makes it cost-effective.

 

[mac1911]

OMRI is an organic certification program, which is fine as far as it goes, but certification does add costs which raises prices. There is a lot of material available that could be certified but isn't, and a lot of mateial that might not even qualify for certification, but will stillnot cause any ill effects to garden soil.

In my experience, soils, compost,s and amendments are usually sold by volume, and should be, because changeable water content will greatly affect weight. I've seen 3 cubic foot bags of soil amendment largely composed of forest product and manure sell for 9 to 12 dollars but I can get a cubic yard of similar material for between 25 to 40.00 including deliver. Even if I compare the lower price of the bagged material and the higher price of the bulk material, the bulk material is half the price. of course the difference can be greater than that,. depending on numerous factors, especially quantity, and quality. However quality itself, can be quite subjective and will depend on usage, aesthetics, and other needs or preferences.

Also, one additional environmental point for bulk compost is it reduces the amount of waste plastic produced (the bags) considerably.

Personally, I buy both bagged and bulk products depending on the material, the quantity I need, and how much I want to store at any one time, but I would prefer to buy bulk more often and do so when the quantity needed makes it cost-effective.

I generally was buying compost from a few sources around me 2/3 are OOB.
Im looking into new sorces now.

 

[mac1911]

The main thing is to make sure that the product is OMRI rated. It will be on the bag somewhere. Bulk composts should always be tested before incorporating into the garden. When a company makes bulk compost the materials usually come from a myriad of places and is impossible to test everything. Batches of bagged compost are tested at the composting site but in rare cases a batch or portion of a batch will slip through as in what happened to Dirt Mechanic and the Black Kow compost. This is why I test a small amount out of each bag. Buying in unbagged bulk quantities numerous tests should be done. Bulk compost, AFAIK is never tested.
I purchase compost every 3rd year. I find that enough of the material in bagged compost will last a maximum of 3 years in order to maintain a good percentage of organic matter in my garden soil for growing vegetables. I don't grow anything I can't eat so I can't attest to growing anything else and the amount of organic matter needed for that.

Thank you for the OMRI tip.
I found one place so far , they are clear across the state.

Basically a quick search and the only readily available OMRI stuff is Coast Of Main $8/1 cuft vs $45 per cuyd . Will have to look deeper. Stopped by a few local farms . They produce there own but non for sale.