Questions re: Compost Teas, etc..

[pepper2.0]

That's interesting. How do you do compost tea if you can't make compost? If the vegetable matter isn't broken down by microorganisms, the plant-available nutrients aren't there.

Compost tea can be made a million different ways. Using water and air speeds things up. Sit in the bathtub for a day or two and let me know how that works out for you lol.

It's not that we can't compost here, it's just not ideal when temperatures get -35. Unlike where you are in Texas... We have a couple months window here to soak up the heat.

 

[Soiled]

Still don't understand how you do it. Water and air is how you make compost. So you take uncomposted vegetative material (or maybe manure), add water and air, and you have compost tea? As I say, that doesn't make sense, as the vegetative material has to be broken down by microorganisms to get the nutrients in plant-usable form. If I take greens, put them in a blender with water and grind them up, that won't make any nutritive mix. Seriously, give us a recipe for compost tea without compost.

Also you don't make compost by soaking up heat. Compost makes it's own heat. Lots of it. Down here in Texas, the heat interferes with composting, because it tends to dry the pile.

 

[pepper2.0]

Still don't understand how you do it. Water and air is how you make compost. So you take uncomposted vegetative material (or maybe manure), add water and air, and you have compost tea? As I say, that doesn't make sense, as the vegetative material has to be broken down by microorganisms to get the nutrients in plant-usable form. If I take greens, put them in a blender with water and grind them up, that won't make any nutritive mix. Seriously, give us a recipe for compost tea without compost.

Also you don't make compost by soaking up heat. Compost makes it's own heat. Lots of it. Down here in Texas, the heat interferes with composting, because it tends to dry the pile.

I don't make compost tea, I don't need to. My gardens have been given compost for years.. the soil has no issues. What I said was if a person was just starting out gardening and didn't have ideal soil then using compost tea would be a good option.

As for water and air.. it speeds things up a lot. I really don't see any need to explain that more.. not being a dick when I say that but common sense says things decay faster in water then just letting them sit in a pile on the ground.

And when there is 3' of snow on the ground.. microbes don't like cold.. it's why you can put meat in the freezer and have it last or keep veggies longer in the fridge. There is a million ways to keep bacteria from doing its thing.. like using salt, vinigar etc without needing a fridge or freezer.. but my point is with compost it needs heat. Maybe not for someone with a 10 ton pile of meadow muffins.. but the average gardener is just composting a small pile.

 

[Soiled]

Well you said compost tea can be made in a million ways, but you don't want to tell us one way how to do it without composted material. I thought that's what you were suggesting, but maybe not. I have no understanding how compost tea rather than compost is a good option for someone without ideal soil. Non-ideal soil is soil that is not friable, and doesn't hold water, and has no organics in it. Compost tea won't fix any of those. Non-ideal soil also might not have nutrients. Compost will provide some, as might compost tea.

As I said, compost generates heat. Lots of it. You do have to have it warm enough for them to start, but once they start, BOOM! I've done composting in piles that were covered with snow. At least the inner parts of the pile get composted just fine. The snow melting from the heat released just kicks up the bacterial action. True, if the pile is small, and the insulation isn't that good, a pile may have a hard time keeping the temperature up. Covering the pile with straw or leaves can help.

 

[pepper2.0]

Well you said compost tea can be made in a million ways, but you don't want to tell us one way how to do it without composted material. I thought that's what you were suggesting, but maybe not. I have no understanding how compost tea rather than compost is a good option for someone without ideal soil. Non-ideal soil is soil that is not friable, and doesn't hold water, and has no organics in it. Compost tea won't fix any of those. Non-ideal soil also might not have nutrients. Compost will provide some, as might compost tea.

As I said, compost generates heat. Lots of it. You do have to have it warm enough for them to start, but once they start, BOOM! I've done composting in piles that were covered with snow. At least the inner parts of the pile get composted just fine. The snow melting from the heat released just kicks up the bacterial action. True, if the pile is small, and the insulation isn't that good, a pile may have a hard time keeping the temperature up. Covering the pile with straw or leaves can help.

Again, not being a dick but it's 2025.. ChatGPT-5 can maybe say it more simply than I can. Either way it saves me having to click the keys lol.

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Composting in Water vs. Compost Heap

1. Speed

• Water-based composting (aerated compost tea): Much faster. In as little as 24–48 hours, you can brew a solution teeming with microbes that can be poured around plants. The water and aeration encourage explosive microbial growth.
• Traditional heap composting: Much slower. A backyard pile can take 3–12 months to fully break down into rich humus.

2. Benefits to Plants

• Liquid compost (compost tea): Provides a living microbial inoculant for the soil, can suppress some soil-borne diseases, and offers nutrients in a quickly available form. Works more like a probiotic and quick-feed.
• Heap compost: Adds stable organic matter (humus) that improves soil texture, water retention, and long-term fertility. Nutrients are released slowly and steadily.

3. Limitations

• Liquid compost: Short shelf life — the microbes only stay alive for a day or two unless aerated. It doesn’t provide bulk organic matter, just microbes and soluble nutrients. If brewed without enough oxygen, it can grow harmful bacteria.
• Heap compost: Slow to make and takes space. Needs a balance of browns and greens, and some turning. But once finished, it’s stable and safe to apply in bulk.

4. Best Use

• Compost tea: Best as a supplement — a quick “shot” of biology and nutrients for seedlings or stressed plants.
• Finished compost: Best as the foundation — worked into soil for long-term fertility and structure.

Conclusion: Composting in water (aerated tea) can be faster and immediately beneficial, but it isn’t a full replacement for a compost heap. It’s more like a liquid fertilizer plus probiotic, while heap compost is a soil builder. The ideal approach is to use both — heap compost for bulk soil health and tea for quick boosts.

So as I said, good for someone who is just starting out with a less than ideal garden soil for their crop.. not having to wait for a compost heap to compost during their grow season.

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[pepper2.0]

And yes, there are many ways to make compost tea. I really don't want to explain them all though.. it's 2025.. if someone doesn't have AI for any and all info then there is no help for them anyway lol

 

[Meadowlark]

...He overstates the value of manure as fertilizer a bit though, by saying it's a substitute for chemical fertilizer, but that's just the common myth that we've already covered here.

While anxiously awaiting your response to my previously asked question, I did a little "fact" checking.

1) Evidence shows that early farmers were using animal manure to fertilize their crops as long as 8,000 years ago.

What "myth" is it exactly that you claimed to have dispelled?

2) The first commercial fertilizer was created in 1842 by Sr John Bennet Lawes who developed superphosphate by treating phosphates with sulfuric acid.

Now, I could be wrong, but it seems quite logical to me that people were using other means of fertilizer, including animal manure, before that. (see number 1 above)

What "myth" is it exactly that you claimed to have dispelled?

3) The first synthetic nitrogen fertilizer was developed using the Habeer-Bosch process to transform atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia...a process patented in 1911.

Again, I could be wrong here, but it is only logical that people were using other means of adding nitrogen to their soil prior to 1911, e.g. animal manure. (see number 1 above)

What "myth" is it exactly that you claimed to have dispelled?

Please specifically describe what "myth" you have supposedly solved re animal manure and while you are at it, prove that no animal manure was ever used as fertilizer prior to commercially available fertilizer.

8,000 years is a long time...

 

[Soiled]

We're still all waiting to get the NPK of your compost. You can have a lab do it, and there are self-tests that are less accurate, but useful. The tests you presented for your compost were not NPK, and the units were not even specified. As I explained, the descriptive words from those tests were for soil tests, and the nutrient levels of your compost were quite good for soil. But they weren't soil. You aren't planting in pure compost. If you take good soil and use it to fractionally amend other soil, as you would with compost, it won't get you very far.

The myth, if you were following this thread, was that compost is a strong fertilizer, in NPK, as are chemical fertilizers. Many respondents here agreed that it is not at all strong fertilizer, as do respected extension offices. The NPK of compost is much lower than that for accepted chemical fertilizers. So much for your "patent falsehood". Consider that myth dispelled. You ask that question about dispelling myths three times, but I'll save you the trouble by just giving you that one answer. Oh, how did your argument with those extension services that I challenged you to do turn out?

Of course, the low NPK of compost can always be compensated for by using a lot of it. Yes, the nutrients in a ton of compost are similar to what you'd get in a hundred or so pounds of chemical fertilizer. But we're doing this assesment by unit weight. NPK is measured in percent by weight.

I NEVER said that animal manure was never used as a fertilizer. So why are you asking me to prove that it wasn't? Why do you make up stuff like that out of whole cloth? You're better than that. Compost and composted manure IS used as a fertilizer, but it's just not a very effective one, compared with chemical fertilizers. I cited many references to that effect. Because of the availability of chemical ferts the main value of compost (at least to non-organic gardeners) is soil conditioning. Animal manure was used as a fertilizer long ago because that's all they had for fertilization.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

If I am in the garden and want a pee I frequently do it on the compost heap, would that significantly up the NKP? Or increase the rate of decay? Also dead mice or birds the cat brings in go in the kitchen waste bin. When I dig that bin out it is a writhing mass of w orms, anything planted within eight feet of the open compost gets 'slugged'. A lot of either must be worm casts or slug shit, or dead worms or slugs. I reckon it all helps up the NPK.

 

[Soiled]

If you pee on a bed of compost, it may raise the N by a tiny fraction of a percent. Urine itself has NPK 11-1-1. Congratulations! Of course, if you're composting manure you already have a lot of it. Animal carcasses don't compost well. Their C/N ratio is low, and have a high water content. I have to assume that compost heaps that have their NPK measured as being minimal have plenty of worms already. But you're right. Without them the NPK would be even worse.

 

[Soiled]

Water-based composting (aerated compost tea): Much faster. In as little as 24–48 hours, you can brew a solution teeming with microbes that can be poured around plants. The water and aeration encourage explosive microbial growth.

That's just saying you can do it. I'm looking for a recipe. If I Google it, I keep seeing references to water-based composting toilets. That would be where you make tea from manure, which is already broken down in the gut and rich in microbes. If you start with raw vegetative material, say, kitchen waste, and drop it in bubbling water for 24-48 hours, I have a hard time believing you're going to see explosive microbial growth.

 

[pepper2.0]

That's just saying you can do it. I'm looking for a recipe. If I Google it, I keep seeing references to water-based composting toilets. That would be where you make tea from manure, which is already broken down in the gut and rich in microbes. If you start with raw vegetative material, say, kitchen waste, and drop it in bubbling water for 24-48 hours, I have a hard time believing you're going to see explosive microbial growth.

If you want a high NPK tea as well as microbial growth here is a recipe.

2 cups of finished compost or worm castings for microbe growth.

4 gallons of rain water.


2 tbsp unsulfured molasses for microbe food.

2 tbsp kelp meal.

1 tbsp fish hydrolysate or a pinch of blood meal.

1 tbsp bone meal or soft rock phosphate.

1-2tbs of soluble potassium sulfate.

Brew it in a 5g bucket with an aquarium pump for 24-36 hrs at around 60-75F. This should give approximately a N 0.3 - 0.6% P 0.1 - 0.3% K 0.5 - 1.5%.

That is way more NPK than regular compost tea. As for the microbes, that's why you brew it and use a microscope if you really want proof of a microbe explosion, or check actual scientific data with pictures. I have a lab microscope so I've seen it with my own eyes.. but of course that should be taken with a grain of sand since I'm a total stranger on the Internet just like everyone else lol.

 

[pepper2.0]

That's just saying you can do it. I'm looking for a recipe. If I Google it, I keep seeing references to water-based composting toilets. That would be where you make tea from manure, which is already broken down in the gut and rich in microbes. If you start with raw vegetative material, say, kitchen waste, and drop it in bubbling water for 24-48 hours, I have a hard time believing you're going to see explosive microbial growth.

Sorry, I was reading this fast and missed your point. Yes, I agree you need compost or worm castings for the ideal microbe growth.. but if in a pinch you could use regular soil. It wouldn't be anywhere as good. I guess one option would be to buy some worm castings online or at the garden store if you don't have any finished compost of your own.

 

[Meadowlark]

...The myth, if you were following this thread, was that compost is a strong fertilizer, in NPK, as are chemical fertilizers.

Is there anyone on this Forum claiming that a pound of compost has more NPK than one pound of 13-13-13? Anyone? Anyone know anyone who claims that?

Your myth is a myth.

For a while there it seemed the "myth" you were claiming to dispel was that compost could substitute for chemical fertilizer. That is no myth, as I have done that every year for decades. But so have millions of others.

There is a huge element of "No Dig" gardeners of whom Charles Dowding is most recognized that claim one inch of compost applied annually outproduces commercial fertilizers.

I did an experiment comparing the "No Dig" approach to mine which involves 3-4 inches of compost, chop and drop, and green manure and found my methods outproduced "No Dig" by more than triple as I recall.... but all without any commercial fertilizers.

You say you measure NPK in percent by weight. I could care less about that. It is completely meaningless, irrelevant to me. What I do care about is the ppm level of NPK and other critical elements that are available to my plants to uptake during the growing season...all of the growing season. I know what is required to reach those optimum levels without any commercial fertilizers and have done so now for decades.

And that is no myth.

 

[pepper2.0]

Is there anyone on this Forum claiming that a pound of compost has more NPK than one pound of 13-13-13? Anyone? Anyone know anyone who claims that?

Your myth is a myth.

For a while there it seemed the "myth" you were claiming to dispel was that compost could substitute for chemical fertilizer. That is no myth, as I have done that every year for decades. But so have millions of others.

There is a huge element of "No Dig" gardeners of whom Charles Dowding is most recognized that claim one inch of compost applied annually outproduces commercial fertilizers.

I did an experiment comparing the "No Dig" approach to mine which involves 3-4 inches of compost, chop and drop, and green manure and found my methods outproduced "No Dig" by more than triple as I recall.... but all without any commercial fertilizers.

You say you measure NPK in percent by weight. I could care less about that. It is completely meaningless, irrelevant to me. What I do care about is the ppm level of NPK and other critical elements that are available to my plants to uptake during the growing season...all of the growing season. I know what is required to reach those optimum levels without any commercial fertilizers and have done so now for decades.

And that is no myth.

Although I have never had my soil tested I agree.. I have been making and adding compost to my gardens for years now without using anything synthetic and everything grows just fine, the plants never show signs of lacking anything.

As far as compost tea.. I see no reason not to use it if growing organically and have the time and desire.

All that said, if growing things other than veggies and fruits.. like maybe cannabis.. then synthetic fertilizer is needed to take them to an entirely different level that no compost could ever do.