Please enlighten me: roses and roses... and yet more roses..


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That's interesting. I've had suckers grow from the graft at soil level in the past but in recent years I've planted with the graft at least an inch above - that seems to work. Your planting seems to shed a different light on this so perhaps the depth does make a difference. On the other hand experts say suckers grow from roots so where do we go from here?

Perhaps @wiseowl can help us out with this one. :)
 
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I have mentioned this before on forums. Gardening opens up a whole new world to you. More than lokely most of us began our adventure by watching mum or dad. Then came the reading of many books on the subject. Throughout there are lots and lots of advice given and mountains of references.

Now and then we might find that, 'Well I followed all the advice, but it didn't work for me' That is the advice. So much is written about the beautiful Rose. Disputes can arise at times, over the number of leaves on the stems/branches. Then do you bury or leave exposed the graft. Above or below soil level. There is no absolute answer. It's no problem if a sucker does pop up. Simply expose part of the stok and tear downwards the sucker, rather than cutting it off. Another point. A newly planted rose is tip heavy, until the roots take hold. IMO there is no problem partly burying the base of the shoots. The practice of giving a bare root rose a good soak prior to planting is excellent, also give the newly dug hole a soak. Here in the UK many bare root roses are sent out covered in wax. Don't worry about it. Also wax is now used to secure and protect a new graft. I remember labourisly winding the joint with raffia.
 
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I hate to go against the grain here @Mike Allen but I'm a self taught gardener although both my late mother and grandfather 'dabbled'. As a youngster I had no interest at all and the only time I looked at a gardening book was during pre-internet times - and then only to identify a plant. My love of gardening developed during my 'thirties' and I'm now at retirement age, so the knowledge I have now, as with many gardeners is through trial and error.

Roses are probably one of the most time consuming and difficult plants that we grow in our gardens. They need attention not only at the planting stage but throughout their existence to reward us with healthy plants and beautiful flowers. The way we grow them is down to our personal learning so there will be conflicting ideas as to which is the right or wrong way. We can also exchange ideas thanks to this and other gardening forums to increase our knowledge and may be change the way we nurture our plants.

Finally, any advice we receive is exactly that, just advice and it's down to us whether we make use of it in the way we grow and nurture not only roses but all plants.

I have only received one rose covered in wax and removed it before planting. This is a recent idea and I believe it's only being used because 'growers' are in a hurry to despatch mass produced plants before they are fully developed.
 
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I must disagree about roses being time consuming and difficult. It really depends on the roses you choose to grow. Antique roses and own-root roses are easy to care for. Sometimes I dead-head the spent blooms, and sometimes I don't. I fertilize once in early spring with composted cow manure. I do try to keep canes from crossing and rubbing, but miss a few and the bush survives. I dearly love my roses, but spend more time cutting bouquets and just inhaling their fragrance than I do in caring for them.
From left to right are Esperanza, Nagadoches (yellow), Old Blush, and the white one that I've forgotten the name. These are only four of our 30 roses that we have in four different beds. We mix them in with perennials (and weeds, darn it) and all the passersby enjoy the display.
front roses.jpg
 
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I agree with you to a certain extent Marlingardener and as you say antique and own root roses probably need little care, but like the Rugosa's they have a different growing habit to those we grow in a more formal way. There's also the issue of climate particularly here in Britain where our roses tend to suffer more from disease because of higher rainfall and cooler temperatures. My own roses were fed three times during the growing season because of nutrients not only taken up by the plants but also being washed further into the soil by rain.

Love your roses by the way! :)
 
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Silent, your wild rose certainly looks like a rose. It may be a Lady Banks--which you definitely do not want in your garden! It does bloom once in the spring and then happily spends the rest of the season tearing down pergolas, removing shed roofs, and being a real pain.
We have several roses, all own-root and several antiques. Hybrids just don't like our climate, but own-root and antiques do. Here's an Aloha on a trellis--lovely scent, too!
View attachment 35513 View attachment 35514
I hate to go against the grain here @Mike Allen but I'm a self taught gardener although both my late mother and grandfather 'dabbled'. As a youngster I had no interest at all and the only time I looked at a gardening book was during pre-internet times - and then only to identify a plant. My love of gardening developed during my 'thirties' and I'm now at retirement age, so the knowledge I have now, as with many gardeners is through trial and error.

Roses are probably one of the most time consuming and difficult plants that we grow in our gardens. They need attention not only at the planting stage but throughout their existence to reward us with healthy plants and beautiful flowers. The way we grow them is down to our personal learning so there will be conflicting ideas as to which is the right or wrong way. We can also exchange ideas thanks to this and other gardening forums to increase our knowledge and may be change the way we nurture our plants.

Finally, any advice we receive is exactly that, just advice and it's down to us whether we make use of it in the way we grow and nurture not only roses but all plants.

I have only received one rose covered in wax and removed it before planting. This is a recent idea and I believe it's only being used because 'growers' are in a hurry to despatch mass produced plants before they are fully developed.
I hate to go against the grain here @Mike Allen but I'm a self taught gardener although both my late mother and grandfather 'dabbled'. As a youngster I had no interest at all and the only time I looked at a gardening book was during pre-internet times - and then only to identify a plant. My love of gardening developed during my 'thirties' and I'm now at retirement age, so the knowledge I have now, as with many gardeners is through trial and error.

Roses are probably one of the most time consuming and difficult plants that we grow in our gardens. They need attention not only at the planting stage but throughout their existence to reward us with healthy plants and beautiful flowers. The way we grow them is down to our personal learning so there will be conflicting ideas as to which is the right or wrong way. We can also exchange ideas thanks to this and other gardening forums to increase our knowledge and may be change the way we nurture our plants.

Finally, any advice we receive is exactly that, just advice and it's down to us whether we make use of it in the way we grow and nurture not only roses but all plants.

I have only received one rose covered in wax and removed it before planting. This is a recent idea and I believe it's only being used because 'growers' are in a hurry to despatch mass produced plants before they are fully developed.
Sheal. Having read your comment. Truly I can see no reason why you mention about going against the grain. My comment gave a general shall we say, scenario of gardening. I totally agree with you and it probably includes the vast majority of us. We learn by trial and error most of the time.

If a gardener decides to go academic at all, then it is best to stick close to the printed, recorded words of our peers. Then return to the method that suits you best. I congratulate you upon your knowledge etc. May I wish you all the best for your future retirement. Enjoy your gardening.
 
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A familiar saying dating back to the 3rd century BCE. "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" So what is it about the Rose ? Why is it so lived and admired. Is it not for it's beauty. Rosa Canine- common dog rose or Rosa rugosa, the rose that must have the greatest number of thorns ever. Common but, beautiful. The blooms are different in each case, texture, shape colour and fragrance. Today we have so many to choose from.

Yes they can at times seem to be so demanding, but at the end of the day, it is worth the effort.
 
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Lovely roses Sheal and Logan. I have several but don't give them the attention they deserve....and need:eek:. I must try harder.
I planted a tall standard 6 years ago, lovely open flat red petals with a yellow centre. It is 2 metres or 6 foot tall. I however planted it through a hoop thinking it would cascade down .It did not and the metal hoop made it difficult to get to. It was looking terrible. This morning I chopped it right back so I could get the hoop off it. I did watch several clips on utube on how to do so before hand so I have my fingers crossed it will survive. :)
 
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. I congratulate you upon your knowledge etc. May I wish you all the best for your future retirement. Enjoy your gardening.
Thank you Mike. :)

We all as gardeners have our preferences in learning, some of us need reference books and others like myself are more 'hands on'. Whichever way we choose hopefully the end result is the same, that we achieve good healthy plants.

So what is it about the Rose ?
That's a difficult question to answer. One that needs some thought. :)
 
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Thank you DeborahJane. :)

There's no reason why your rose shouldn't survive as long as you've left enough stem length so that buds can re-shoot. They are tougher than we think.
 
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@Sheal All of my roses are planted in that way, and I've never seen any suckers at all on any of them. Perhaps the graft is too deep? If there are any rose experts on here, it would be nice to know their opinions.
That is a little low Flanders to be honest. I was for a few years A part of a team that grow and sold Up to 50.000 roses each year & I would back then do everything from planting the root stock & then budding, lifting from the Field & selling to the Public. Theses days I don't do the selling so much But do a lot of planting For Customers. Last month I had a couple of hundred bare root roses to plant for a Wedding Venue & always plant so the bud union is about 20mm above the soil.
 
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That is a little low Flanders to be honest. I was for a few years A part of a team that grow and sold Up to 50.000 roses each year & I would back then do everything from planting the root stock & then budding, lifting from the Field & selling to the Public. Theses days I don't do the selling so much But do a lot of planting For Customers. Last month I had a couple of hundred bare root roses to plant for a Wedding Venue & always plant so the bud union is about 20mm above the soil.
That depth is actually the one that my current rose supplier recommended. I do have a theory as to why.

I live in USDA hardiness zone 7, as can be seen in my avatar. The USDA have a map, on which they have translated the European hardiness zones to their standard. Assuming it to be roughly correct, it shows Essex as being Zone 9. The higher the number, the warmer the zone is. I would expect that the graft in a warmer zone could be higher due to higher average temperatures in Winter.

As I wrote in my post #50, theres no right or wrong way. If it works, it works. What could be the correct thing to do in one zone, may not be correct in another.
 
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it shows Essex as being Zone 9. The higher the number, the warmer the zone is. I would expect that the graft in a warmer zone could be higher due to higher average temperatures in Winter.
I spent the first half of my life in Essex, England. I then moved 300 miles north to the Isle of Man where winter's were mild, temperature very rarely dropping below -3C/27F. I am now another 300 miles further north in Scotland. My roses in Essex were at soil level and produced a few suckers from the graft, on the island they were above soil level and didn't produce them. I've recently planted my first rose here above soil level where winter is harsher so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Where ever the graft is sited should we take into account the genetics of each rose? Or perhaps the soil and nutrients? These could well have a bearing on their growth habits and may be trigger suckers from either graft or root stock.
 
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Just a thought. You Tube has several clips of Queen Mary's rose gardens Regents Park London. Well worth a look.
 
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I spent the first half of my life in Essex, England. I then moved 300 miles north to the Isle of Man where winter's were mild, temperature very rarely dropping below -3C/27F. I am now another 300 miles further north in Scotland. My roses in Essex were at soil level and produced a few suckers from the graft, on the island they were above soil level and didn't produce them. I've recently planted my first rose here above soil level where winter is harsher so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Where ever the graft is sited should we take into account the genetics of each rose? Or perhaps the soil and nutrients? These could well have a bearing on their growth habits and may be trigger suckers from either graft or root stock.
@Sheal It will be interesting to know what happens with your roses. Will you inform us of their progress? Especially as you are now in a similar Hardiness zone to not only myself, but others on here.
 
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Yes, I will post updates although I will only have the one rose until later in the year when the bare root season returns.
 

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