Lets talk Artificial Fertilizers

[redback]

But Artificial Fertilizers are needed to give the plant what they need to grow healthy and give the best results,

The opposite is true. NPK fertilizers kill the microbes in the soil, are soluble and therefore wash away down the streams and rivers polluting on the way.
In Australia green waste are combined with chicken manure, composted and made into organic fertilizer pellets. These have a long life, scientific analysis of the mineral content and added micronutrients like boron, molybdenum and manganese.
People here (and in Europe?) are becoming aware that their health is tied to the health of their soil. The crisis in health is forcing farmers to change to 'Regen Ag.' using a range of microbial inoculants. Soil science has proven that microbes feed the plants and are fed by the plants. So, it's true to say artificial fertilizers produce low nutrient plants, dead soil and the worse results.

 

[Mr_Yan]

I have two hay fields which are never grazed and never artificially fertilized that produce more than the needed winter supply of hay. Cross fencing on pastures enables efficient rotational grazing. I never fertilize pastures or hay fields and never, ever apply herbicides. All organic. It has been regenerating itself for over 40 years...

You lost me here @Meadowlark maybe just a typo or the fact I'm really tired.

Never grazed but fenced for efficient rotational grazing?

I was reading this thread about a year long cow-graze to cow-graze cycle and was thinking about the guys who rotationally graze fields that I've read. Names like Joel Salatin and Mark Shepherd come to mind. I think Salatin was talking about being down to something like 30 days or else the grass gets out of control.

 

[Meadowlark]

Never grazed but fenced for efficient rotational grazing?

I'll try to clarify...The Hay fields are never grazed. I bale hay only once a year and the remainder of the time idle the hay field or chop and drop the Tifton Bahia grass just like I do a cover crop in the garden. No grazing. It's really quite amazing to watch one 5-acre hay field produce 15 tons of quality hay, year after year, relying on only sunshine and rain.

The pastures are cross-fenced to enable moving the cows from one pasture to another. My primary grazing grass is Argentine Bahia, and it really responds well to intensive grazing and rest/recovery. When the grass gets short in their field, they are moved. That way the cows are on fresh grass the majority of the time and I find that to be very effective and efficient.

The grazing time varies on each pasture and is affected by rains and weather. In a perfect year, I would never have to mow any weeds (or grass) in any pastures and grass would be plentiful in all...but perfection is somewhat elusive,

 

[cpp gardener]

I agree Moonraker didn't make a lot of sense. Seemed like a non-English speaker translating or AI translating from French(?).
Synthetic is more accurate than artificial. Plants need nutrients in particular forms for absorption to occur. The source of those nutrients is unimportant to the plants. This is why hydroponics works. This is also why synthetic fertilizers work.

I have a bottle of Vigoro water-soluble Rose food. The analysis is 18-24-16. The sources of the nutrients are:
ammonium phosphate
nitrate of potash
urea
copper sulfate
chelated iron sulfate EDTA
manganese sulfate
zinc sulfate
Exactly where is the salt that will poison my soil? Which salt is it?

The biggest nitrogen pollution source of the Ohio River is feedlots and pig farms.
Not all organics are good and not all synthetics are bad. For good plant growth and proper fertilizer application it is always important to read and follow the directions on the label.

I can guarantee you that every sportsfield you see on TV is fertilized with synthetic fertilizer. They are constantly testing the soil for nutrient content and applying synthetic fertilizer on a very regular basis. It is critical for those fields to look perfect every time there is a camera on.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I can guarantee you that every sportsfield you see on TV is fertilized with synthetic fertilizer.

They have carried it a stage further, a lot of those on UK TV are synthetic grass.

 

[Mr_Yan]

They have carried it a stage further, a lot of those on UK TV are synthetic grass.

There's paint too. Look at golf courses where they have paths trampled by spectators one day then they're green the next.

 

[YumYum]

I have a bottle of Vigoro water-soluble Rose food. The analysis is 18-24-16. The sources of the nutrients are:
ammonium phosphate
nitrate of potash
urea
copper sulfate
chelated iron sulfate EDTA
manganese sulfate
zinc sulfate
Exactly where is the salt that will poison my soil? Which salt is it?

Well, all of those ingredients are salts. Salt in this manner doesn't refer to sodium or chlorides. When something dissolves in water, it is then technically a salt. Think of it as total dissoved solids. Even organic fertilizers form salts. That is how the plant can uptake the nutrient.

And there is no difference between which ever nutrient the plant uptakes (nitrate, ammonium, calcium ion, etc) from synthetic vs organic sources. Organic sources have to be broken down while synthetic is already available to the plant when it dissolves in water.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

When something dissolves in water, it is then technically a salt.

Sugar? Air?
When something metallic combines with an acid and replaces some or all of the hydrogen it produces a salt. It does not have to be an actual metal, just act like one.

 

[roadrunner]

This is a good explanation of "salts" WRT fertilizers... Go to the 8:10-minute point of the video. Bottom line synthetic fertilizers don't create a build up of salts in the soil.


(Note: I don't use any type of fertilizers, so I'm not defending synthetics, I'm just saying there are a lot of myths out there, salts being one of them.).

 

[redback]

Go to the 8:10-minute point of the video. Bottom line synthetic fertilizers don't create a build up of salts in the soil.

That was good thanks roadrunner.
There are different soils here in Australia. One famous example is the need for micronutrients in the southeast of this state. When they added tiny amounts of trace elements the soil was massively improved.
Synthetic fertilizers have caused the oversupply of phosphates - so how is that not a build-up?

 

[YumYum]

When something dissolves in water, it is then technically a salt. Think of it as total dissoved solids.

When something metallic combines with an acid and replaces some or all of the hydrogen it produces a salt. It does not have to be an actual metal, just act like one.

I will concede to that. Also TDS is not the same thing as salts.

 

[redback]

Home compost contains life and oxygen and that sets it apart from the artificial fertilizers. They are pink and grey balls that look like industrial waste and don't support life.
Plants are alive and must therefore have 'brains' and must 'socialize' with each other. It's true but we call it 'quorum sensing'.
You can see in the photo. that I am planting my vegetables in a dense 'jungle' of multiple mixed root crops, flowers, herbs and weeds that I have allowed to grow. I weeded recently and was amazed to see lots of ladybirds walking sideways along the middle height of the grasses. The ladybird trail was shady, moist with water droplets, out of the hot sun and safe from ground predators.
This new look dense polyculture has pleased me enormously and I will continue it until I find a reason not to.

 

[cpp gardener]

I was asking about the salts because it’s been suggested that synthetic ferts cause a build-up of salt in the soil. Any over-application of a nutrient can cause an over-supply of that nutrient and can tie-up certain other nutrients and make them unavailable to plants causing a ‘deficiency’ symptom. Always follow the package directions.
Australia is a very ‘old’ continent and most soils there are naturally low in
phosphorus. Because of this many Aus natives are extremely good at absorbing and storing phosphorus. They tend to show phosphorus ‘burn’ even when the level is ‘normal’ for other plants. It’s a problem here when we grow Anigozanthos and Grevilleas.
Just want to say that I appreciate the pride and conviction of organic and permaculture advocates, but their tendency to ‘bash’ synthetic ferts unrelentingly is off-putting to say the least. Your way works for you and other ways work for others. Acceptance of different techniques makes for a much more harmonious forum.

 

[redback]

Acceptance of different techniques makes for a much more harmonious forum.

Good intentions 'cpp gardener'. I have used some chemical fertilizers in the past, but I find organic are always better.
To be fair I have to use fly repellant, rodent poisons, snail pellets and ant poisons. I hate doing it and avoid it as far as possible.
I don't have to use artificial fertilizers.
That thing about Australian natives and phosphorus is correct but is not as widespread in the indigenous plants as originally thought.

 

[Tetters]

This has now become the kind of thread I like to read. A grown up offering of thoughts and views on an important subject.