Lets talk Artificial Fertilizers

[redback]

The microbe networks don't "wake up" again when cold and all the nice looking seedling starts languish after planting out.

I don't know if microbes hibernate. I suspect the fungi don't because trees need supplies. Seeds normally need a temperature of about 12C or 56F to germinate (varies).

 

[zigs]

I've been watching this thread with interest. I use artificials (all be it only Tomorite) on my cacti, but only garden compost and leaf mold on my vegetables.

I certainly wouldn't berate anyone for putting there side of the fertilisation methods that they use, that's the whole point of having a forum where we discuss things like this

Maybe we could have a thread that goes something like....

I use artificial fertilisers, they make my plants big. End of thread.

 

[redback]

I found a couple of weeds for examples of root systems in synthetically fertilized areas. Let me know if the root systems differ radically from wha5 you expect.

The first two indicate life in your soil. The third one is a patch of fairly dead soil.
I expected everyone to be at least partially organic.

 

[redback]

Miracle-gro wouldn’t be a multibillion dollar business if all their products killed plants and people willy-nilly.

If it makes money, they would do it.
You seem to feel free to insult organic practitioners and accuse them of being responsible for pig waste. Look at item one of the thread to see the claim that artificial fertilizers are the best. The artificial fert. users were asking for a fight putting this thread under general gardening.

 

[Tetters]

There is more to gardening than vegetables. I have a less than 1/2 acre yard in the suburbs that I don't own. I can only do so much and have only so much time.

I'm actually quite disappointed. I thought you had a proper garden, and have always valued your ''expertise''. Do you only teach gardening then at the place where you work?
I sincerely hope that my question doesn't go down like a balloon full of trace elements

 

[redback]

I use artificials (all be it only Tomorite) on my cacti, but only garden compost and leaf mold on my vegetables.

That's about right for all of us. I import chicken and horse manure. They might have worming tablet residuals or still active anti- biotics in them. I once bought a bag of sulphate of potash and distributed it garden wide. That particular fert. was approved by organic organizations because there was no substitute. I have learnt that wood ash is a good substitute as long as you watch alkalinity.
If organic growers happen to buy a chicken already prepared to eat they are probably getting chemicals that are legal but so adulterated that they don't want to know. Same goes for almost all breads.
We can't escape our modern chemical world, but we should try to change it for the better.

 

[cpp gardener]

Sorry (not sorry) to disappoint you, Tetters. Check out some of my posts on other threads and judge for yourself if my “expertise” (your quotes not mine) anctually exists. I don’t teach, I’m a Gardener and maintain the landscape of the University. Some of the areas I work are the Kellogg Rose Garden, Aratani Japanese Garden and at the Kellogg Manor House (the last is the University President’s home and was built by W.K. Kellogg for his son). I have been gardening since I was 5 years old. I have a Bachelor’s degree in Ornamental Horticulture from Cal Poly Pomona. I worked for 23 years in retail nurseries and have been at Cal Poly for 20 years.

Back to fertilizers.
Plants don’t notice or care what the source of nutrients is as long as it is available in a form they can absorb. If it were that critical, hydroponics wouldn’t work. Synthetics are more concentrated and more readily available to plants than organic fertilizers. A little goes a lot farther and results are faster (mostly). Coated slow-release fertilizers and synthetic-organic urea take longer to become available, but last longer than plain pellets.
It’s easier to fix individual deficiencies with synthetics than with organics since there are formulations of specific nutrients in forms that plants can readily absorb.

 

[smitty55]

Oh really, being rude to the American folk on here will not endear them to your snooty and big headed misinformation. I have seen a huge number of very fat people here in our country, and I imagine there will be a fair few in France as well.
Are you just bored? It seems to me that you are just intent on trying to ruin yet another forum. I don't think it will work.

I can't believe this guy. He's been here 10 days and already throwing so much manure around it's incredible. I don't know who he thinks he is but I can already tell that the best thing to do at the very least is to just totally ignore his trolling or even better just give him the boot. What a pile of crap he's spewing.

 

[smitty55]

There is more to gardening than vegetables. I have a less than 1/2 acre yard in the suburbs that I don't own. I can only do so much and have only so much time. I choose to use my time and energy growing ornamental plants. You have your preferences and I have mine.
There are 20 different forums on this site and many people on them use synthetic fertilizers with great success. There is a forum for Organic Gardening that should appeal to you and could probably benefit from your experience and knowledge. This thread is about Artificial (synthetic) Fertilizers. If you have information and experience that would help someone interested in the use of synthetic fertilizers please feel free to post it. Simply and constantly denigrating, insulting and belittling others that grow things with synthetics is neither helpful nor polite.

You really need to do some research on the soil food web and I suggest you start with Elaine Ingham , a leading world expert. https://www.soilfoodweb.com/

 

[Tetters]

Sorry (not sorry) to disappoint you, Tetters. Check out some of my posts on other threads and judge for yourself if my “expertise” (your quotes not mine) anctually exists. I don’t teach, I’m a Gardener and maintain the landscape of the University. Some of the areas I work are the Kellogg Rose Garden, Aratani Japanese Garden and at the Kellogg Manor House (the last is the University President’s home and was built by W.K. Kellogg for his son). I have been gardening since I was 5 years old. I have a Bachelor’s degree in Ornamental Horticulture from Cal Poly Pomona. I worked for 23 years in retail nurseries and have been at Cal Poly for 20 years.

Back to fertilizers.
Plants don’t notice or care what the source of nutrients is as long as it is available in a form they can absorb. If it were that critical, hydroponics wouldn’t work. Synthetics are more concentrated and more readily available to plants than organic fertilizers. A little goes a lot farther and results are faster (mostly). Coated slow-release fertilizers and synthetic-organic urea take longer to become available, but last longer than plain pellets.
It’s easier to fix individual deficiencies with synthetics than with organics since there are formulations of specific nutrients in forms that plants can readily absorb.

Your detailed information is quite an eye opener. There is clearly a lot you have written on the forum that I have missed. The fact that your knowledge stems from practical experience makes the ''expertise'' quote even more viable.
During the time I spent propagating shrubs and climbers at the nursery where I worked, we used Osmocote in the compost, which was peat based with different added commodities for each variety of plant. This method of feeding was indeed necessary for the job at hand, but as a choice, when it comes to the vegetable plot I much prefer the organic method. It is just accessibility that can be difficult.
To have the capability to provide for a veggie plot with organic support from home grown, home fed cattle, and enough space to move the cattle to new feeding areas would be my dream.

 

[cpp gardener]

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that this was an exclusively organic/permaculture site. I thought it was a site for all kinds of gardeners all over the world. A thread titled “General Gardening Talk” lead me to believe it would welcome those of us who garden other than Organic/Permaculture without subjecting us to insult and ridicule.

My bad.

I have been posting here for a little over 4 years. In that time I have posted 1477 times. MOST of the time I have been welcomed and felt helpful. I have avoided the “Organic Gardening” forum because that is not my area of expertise, although I am well aware of many of the practices and principles. I have, however, noticed that certain proponents of these techniques seem to believe that those of us who choose to garden otherwise are ignorant, incompetent and out to destroy the world. Not really the response I expected from ‘teachers’ and modern-day hippies. Thanks for putting me straight.

I will continue to follow and post on other threads and hope to continue to be as helpful as I can.

Oh and Smitty, KMA.

 

[Tetters]

You really need to do some research on the soil food web and I suggest you start with Elaine Ingham , a leading world expert. https://www.soilfoodweb.com/

I do agree with @cpp gardener. Sometimes we have to agree to differ with better grace.

 

[Tetters]

How lovely is this! I have been scouting around the Cal Poly Pomona for a nose. The rose garden is massive by the looks of it. I hope there's a big team of helpers to keep all this lot looking good. What a superb job to have !! (better than teaching )

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I will continue to follow and post on other threads and hope to continue to be as helpful as I can.

Pretty damn helpful I'd say.

 

[zigs]

This has been a very interesting thread but I think it seems to be degenerating into a slanging match. There really wasn't any need to tell anyone to KYB @cpp gardener please try to keep it civil

I'm closing this thread now, if anyone wants to start an Organic V Artifical thread or purely one or the other feel free, but as Tetter's has said, it's the middle of winter and sometimes gardeners get tetchy.

Thank you for your patience good people