How to Cheaply Fill Large Containers for Growing Squash and Beans?

[headfullofbees]

We've been creating our garden for about three years now and have purchased a great deal of compost. In that three years the price for compost has gone from about 4p a litre to 14p a litre. It's just too expensive now.

We have got a fair amount of garden compost, and a big container full of cow manure rotting down. But this is needed for topping up our existing beds and tubs.

I've purchased 10 x 80L containers for growing beans and squash in a sun trap area at the front of the house. It's a gravel surface, so whilst I can remove the gravel and put down some sugar and manure before putting the containers on top, I do need those containers to provide a decent depth of soil.

So, what do I fill them with? I'm thinking:

1. It's autumn, so there should be plenty of leaves around. I thought I'd put a thick layer of these at the bottom of the tubs for water retention. Perhaps along with some torn up cardboard.
2. I have access to as much horse/cow manure as I want - some of it is reasonably well rotted, but not completely. I thought I'd add a good, thick layer of this next.
3. Finally, a mix of garden compost and coir (I purchased a big batch of this last year) to create a layer of perhaps 4 inches on top?

I have some wallflower and pansy seedlings so I thought I'd plant them in the container now for some winter colour. Am I correct in thinking that my containers should be in good shape for squash and beans by June? I thought I might add some worm castings at this point.

.
If you can, get down to the beach, with a trailer, or line the boot of your car & put a couple of bins in it.
The shore has loads of dead seaweed on it here in Luce Bay.
Make as many trips as you can and pile it high; it'll rot down over the winter.
Swap a little of this rotten seaweed for some of the materials you were going to put on your established beds & ALL the leaves on your established beds too. (I'll get to the leaves later)
Put a good layer of seaweed into each of the new containers, topped off with the manure & compost you've pinched from your established beds.

Do NOT line the bottoms of your new pots with leaves; they will destroy your drainage.
The best place for your leaves is on top of your established beds, as they will have worm populations which will thrive on leaves, as they love the cellulose. Their output (up to half their bodyweight each day), is fertiliser gold.
Any left, you can move aside as you plant, & you have a great mulch.

 

[Susan BBPM]

.
If you can, get down to the beach, with a trailer, or line the boot of your car & put a couple of bins in it.
The shore has loads of dead seaweed on it here in Luce Bay.
Make as many trips as you can and pile it high; it'll rot down over the winter.
Swap a little of this rotten seaweed for some of the materials you were going to put on your established beds & ALL the leaves on your established beds too. (I'll get to the leaves later)
Put a good layer of seaweed into each of the new containers, topped off with the manure & compost you've pinched from your established beds.

Do NOT line the bottoms of your new pots with leaves; they will destroy your drainage.
The best place for your leaves is on top of your established beds, as they will have worm populations which will thrive on leaves, as they love the cellulose. Their output (up to half their bodyweight each day), is fertiliser gold.
Any left, you can move aside as you plant, & you have a great mulch.

We're just 10 mins from a beach, so no problems getting seaweed. Normally we put it in the compost heap, but will try your suggestions. Thank you!

 

[headfullofbees]

The article was interesting even though the author admitted zero experience with Hügelkultur and did not address Hügelkultur in containers anywhere that I saw.

Some other thoughts I had reading it, in no particular order:

1) very little attention is given to the soil in the top layer, unfortunately. It has far more impact on success or failure in using HK containers than the other layers. Far more important.

2) the degree to which the wood used in the first(bottom) layer is already decayed makes a big difference in nitrogen immobilization. Same for the second layer. However, I didn't see that accounted for.

Wouldn't it make far more sense to select wood/materials for your HK container bottom layers that is already releasing nitrogen?

Couple that with nutrient dense soil in the top layer and you have a recipe for success.

3) there was no waiting time in our experiment between planting and container construction....at least for me. I planted immediately both spring and fall. after building each tub. I knew my top layer garden soil was/is first class. See # 1 above. I also knew my wood layers were made with decomposed materials and nitrogen immobilization was very unlikely.

4) The article asked, "Are Plants Grown in Hugelkultur Nutrient Deficient? " again without regard to the critical top layer of soil. My soil test lab assigns a nutrient density score to the submitted sample indicating the likelihood of producing nutrient dense foods from it. My score for the soil in my HK containers is 94%.



Cutting the bottoms out of the containers does not make sense to me. Completely defeats the purpose, IMO. In my original post on using HK in containers I illustrated the drainage used. It has been very successful.

Nitrogen rich soil can be a problem when growing potatoes , (too much leaf, not enough tuber) so my question is, "Is potato growing compatible with hugelkulture containing well-rotted wood?"

 

[Meadowlark]

That is an excellent question. I'm working on finding an answer.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Would you believe - a huge, rotten tree has just lodged itself across the burn (stream/small river) at the bottom of my garden. It must be about 25 foot long and 2 foot diameter. Absolutely rotten. Most of the time it's just a trickle of water but a couple of times a year we'll get a massive, raging torrent. Chances are the rotten tree will be lodged there for months to come, giving us plenty of time to hack lumps off to use for our containers.

Fate?

 

[headfullofbees]

"Fate?"

I bet you a tenner to a bucket of ...ermm...manure, (shall we say?) that this wasn't in your horoscope.

Probably the weather.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

She has to be an Aquarian for the stream to have brought it. Every gardener should have an engine hoist for hauling large trees out of streams before another flood comes, and similar operations.

 

[Susan BBPM]

She has to be an Aquarian for the stream to have brought it. Every gardener should have an engine hoist for hauling large trees out of streams before another flood comes, and similar operations.

Hubby was out there for about 5 hours solid trying to cut it free. He came in exhausted but triumphant!! And we have a good sized pile of firewood and plenty of rotten wood for our containers. A 'damn' of big branches etc had built up behind it.


It was rotten around the outside but hard as nails in the middle. It had wedged one end of itself between the two 'forks' of a hawthorn tree on our bank. The rear end had swung around and embedded itself in the opposite bank. He couldn't get access with a chain saw so it was a little manual saw and an axe.

It's still there - it'll take quite a big flood to float it away, but it's cut free of our tree so hopefully won't do damage when it goes.

 

[lliefveld]

. Also, it is NOT something to help me garden as I get older.

Rather, it is a valuable tool which I will employ to grow selected veggies for our veggie supply. As with any tool, it can always use sharpening...optimizing for production....and that is what I'm working on now.

Wondering why you say it isn't something to help you garden as you get older...?? Are you saying it will become harder to do as you get older? Or are you saying it's not JUST something to help you garden as you get older (since you go on to say it's a valuable tool).

I just started a hugelkulture bed this year in my garden, and it was quite a lot of work. I haven't applied the concept to containers yet although I want to try it in my new 3'x8' raised bed for next year.

 

[lliefveld]

My initial approach to sustaining HK containers will be to always rotate crops and replace part of the soil with my garden soil after each harvest...free and easy and high probability of success. Time will tell.

I'm somewhat surprised that you are using your garden soil in your containers. I've had very poor results using garden soil in my raised beds (3' x8' x 2') I think it's because my soil is very high in clay and very low in organic material. I started out with 2 beds - one that I filled with garden soil and then added tons and tons of organic material. The other I used commercial raised bed mix. That was 4 years ago. The one that started out with garden soil is STILL problematic, even though I continue to add organic material every year. It gets so hard. I wouldn't dare to try to grow root crops in it.

What is your normal garden soil like?

 

[Meadowlark]

What is your normal garden soil like?

I have outstanding garden soil...IMO as good as there exists anywhere. It is sandy loam built up over many years with special cover crops. I strive for and generally receive soil test results which say, "No N-P-K required" and a nutrient density score well in excess of 90%. I do not use any synthetic fertilizers, any non-organic pesticides, or any fungicides in my garden soil.

It has taken me many years to achieve this garden soil. It would be foolish indeed for me to procure commercial raised bed mix when my soil is far superior to anything on the commercial market. Better still, my garden soil is completely sustainable for the foreseeable future.

 

[Meadowlark]

Wondering why you say it isn't something to help you garden as you get older...?? Are you saying it will become harder to do as you get older? Or are you saying it's not JUST something to help you garden as you get older (since you go on to say it's a valuable tool).

I just started a hugelkulture bed this year in my garden, and it was quite a lot of work. I haven't applied the concept to containers yet although I want to try it in my new 3'x8' raised bed for next year.

I stated (kind of kiddingly) that because the original intent behind my experiment was exactly that...find a way I can continue to garden as I get older.

What I found instead was a tool that I absolutely need to use right now, every day in my garden technique. It is that productive to me.

Yes, it will definitely help me garden in my "Golden years" but more importantly it has opened up growing certain veggies that we love that otherwise I couldn't grow to the extent desired.

Thank you for your questions...and I encourage you to jump over to the thread "An experiment in Hugelkulture in containers" for the "back story" and for future updates which will be forthcoming. Also, the thread, "Lettuce in East Texas in 100 deg F weather?" might give you some ideas why I'm eager to use this tool now.

 

[lliefveld]

I have outstanding garden soil...IMO as good as there exists anywhere. It is sandy loam built up over many years with special cover crops. I strive for and generally receive soil test results which say, "No N-P-K required" and a nutrient density score well in excess of 90%. I do not use any synthetic fertilizers, any non-organic pesticides, or any fungicides in my garden soil.

It has taken me many years to achieve this garden soil. It would be foolish indeed for me to procure commercial raised bed mix when my soil is far superior to anything on the commercial market. Better still, my garden soil is completely sustainable for the foreseeable future.

thanks so much for your response. I wish my garden soil were that good! We moved here 6 years ago and I've been working hard to improve the soil, which is mostly clay, some silt, and tons of basalt! Each year I improve a small area - small is all I can hope for since it's so very difficult to do. In the meantime, I've built raised beds. It's so discouraging, since I had created wonderful soil in the home I previously had.

 

[lliefveld]

I stated (kind of kiddingly) that because the original intent behind my experiment was exactly that...find a way I can continue to garden as I get older.

What I found instead was a tool that I absolutely need to use right now, every day in my garden technique. It is that productive to me.

Yes, it will definitely help me garden in my "Golden years" but more importantly it has opened up growing certain veggies that we love that otherwise I couldn't grow to the extent desired.

Thank you for your questions...and I encourage you to jump over to the thread "An experiment in Hugelkulture in containers" for the "back story" and for future updates which will be forthcoming. Also, the thread, "Lettuce in East Texas in 100 deg F weather?" might give you some ideas why I'm eager to use this tool now.

got it! thanks!

 

[Meadowlark]

...I just started a hugelkulture bed this year in my garden, and it was quite a lot of work. I haven't applied the concept to containers yet although I want to try it in my new 3'x8' raised bed for next year.

I think you will find the use of HK containers to be much easier...assuming you use large enough containers. It takes me about 30 minutes to build one HK container. I started with one, then seven, and now about twenty and still need a couple more.

But, rather than sidetrack this thread....jump over to the original "An experiment in Hugelkulture in containers" and ask any questions or make any comments you may have. Both are welcomed.