problem affecting pepper plant leaves

[Chuck]

Hi Chuck.

Good news, most of my plants recovered, except that one which mysteriously shriveled up and died. Most of them are larger now and many producing peppers.

But a huge problem still persists with my indoor plants - ants and aphids.

My theory is - since I never see the aphids without also seeing ants - that the ants are bringing the aphids in from somewhere to farm them. Although today, two days after my last spinosad treatment, I am observing something a bit unsusual - I don't see a single ant, but I've still got a ton of tiny aphids covering the leaves a few plants.

I have tried everything I know including your suggestions but so far nothing has worked.

I have tried both foliar spray and drench with a spinosad product (Monterey garden insecticide) .

I have tried both foliar spray and drench with neem.

In both cases the aphids are back covering the leaves within a day or two, like nothing happened, seemingly unharmed!

I have tried showering all the plants to get the aphids off - equally useless.

I have tried hydrogen peroxide spray every few days.

I have tried a foliar spray made up of comfrey and nettle and mint - all things which I have read will deter aphids. Useless!!!

At this point I really don't know what to do. I think the ant/aphid populations here must just be gigantic and they seem to be invincible.

The amount of maintenance needed to remove constantly returning aphid populations from my plants seems excessive. Having to remove all my plants from the grow area every few days and shower them or spray them just to get the aphids off (which will then return in a day or two!) feels like too much work!

If you have any other ideas let me know.

Can you take a picture of the aphids?

 

[alexen]

Here are a couple of pics. I removed a bunch of aphids before you replied, so these pics only represent one type of aphid I am finding on my plants.

I have noticed several different types: some look like tiny brown balls, others like white dots, and some are even finer and smaller - they almost resemble white flecks of dust, and seem to be able to disperse themselves all over the place. And remember this is just two days after I did both a spray and drench with spinosad!!

I will try to get more pictures for you as the various types reappear.

 

[Chuck]

Hi Chuck.

Good news, most of my plants recovered, except that one which mysteriously shriveled up and died. Most of them are larger now and many producing peppers.

But a huge problem still persists with my indoor plants - ants and aphids.

My theory is - since I never see the aphids without also seeing ants - that the ants are bringing the aphids in from somewhere to farm them. Although today, two days after my last spinosad treatment, I am observing something a bit unsusual - I don't see a single ant, but I've still got a ton of tiny aphids covering the leaves a few plants.

I have tried everything I know including your suggestions but so far nothing has worked.

I have tried both foliar spray and drench with a spinosad product (Monterey garden insecticide) .

I have tried both foliar spray and drench with neem.

In both cases the aphids are back covering the leaves within a day or two, like nothing happened, seemingly unharmed!

I have tried showering all the plants to get the aphids off - equally useless.

I have tried hydrogen peroxide spray every few days.

I have tried a foliar spray made up of comfrey and nettle and mint - all things which I have read will deter aphids. Useless!!!

At this point I really don't know what to do. I think the ant/aphid populations here must just be gigantic and they seem to be invincible.

The amount of maintenance needed to remove constantly returning aphid populations from my plants seems excessive. Having to remove all my plants from the grow area every few days and shower them or spray them just to get the aphids off (which will then return in a day or two!) feels like too much work!

If you have any other ideas let me know.

Use an oil such as neem on BOTH sides of the leaves. Use spinosad as a drench. Do it about 2 times per week. Aphids are not difficult to eliminate. Aphids come from eggs that are on the plant. The ants come from eggs in the soil. Oil smothers eggs. Spinosad is death on mature aphids. How old is your Neem Oil? You do not have to move your plants. Aphids do NOT fly, they crawl.

 

[alexen]

Hi Chuck,

thanks for your reply. I've attached another picture for you - this one shows the fleck-like aphids, which also swarm my plants. At this point I can break down the ones I see on my plants into three types: small sort of round ones, like in the previous pictures; what look like tiny brown balls, often on the stems between leaves (could these be aphid eggs?); and the little white fleck type like you see in the picture attached to this post.

You don't know how lucky you are if you have been able to eliminate aphids easily! From my own experience the aphids here are extremely difficult to eliminate. I have tried everything I know to get rid of them, and nothing has been effective so far.

The reason I need to move my plants is because I don't have enough room to manoeuvre in the closet where my plants are growing. So I need to take each one out to effectively spray all the leaves.

I do spray both sides of the leaves. But here's the thing, even if I spray every single plant, within two days aphids are back covering them. I've tried spraying every couple days, they still come back within 48 hours.

Right now I'm not even seeing any ants crawling around, but as you see from the picture there are plenty of aphids anyway.

I think the aphids are definitely damaging my plants - because the more often I notice them on my plants, the more I begin to notice leaf problems, like discolored leaves, yellowing leaves that fall off, and so on. at the moment most of my plants are winning the battle, but I did have a cayenne which started out very healthy but on which every leaf eventually yellowed and fell off! I have now moved that plant outside, and fortunately slowly but surely leaves are beginning to regrow. I'm pretty sure it was the aphids that destroyed that plant, by sucking the life out of it, because there really isn't any other explanation.

I am using "neem bliss" pure neem oil which does not expire until 2022. Originally I was following the instructions on the bottle and using 1 1/2 tsp per quart of water but I think this was part of what was causing leaf damage to my plants before. It seemed that amount of neem was too high, and even if I left them to dry in darkness overnight, once the light came back on, the leaves were getting burned. So now I am just using 1/2 tsp of neem per quart with 1/4 tsp of dr bonner's soap as an emulsifier.

I will keep applying neem religiously to every plant where I see aphids every few days and see what the situation is in a couple of weeks. What is the next step if neem doesn't do the trick?

 

[Chuck]

Hi Chuck,

thanks for your reply. I've attached another picture for you - this one shows the fleck-like aphids, which also swarm my plants. At this point I can break down the ones I see on my plants into three types: small sort of round ones, like in the previous pictures; what look like tiny brown balls, often on the stems between leaves (could these be aphid eggs?); and the little white fleck type like you see in the picture attached to this post.

You don't know how lucky you are if you have been able to eliminate aphids easily! From my own experience the aphids here are extremely difficult to eliminate. I have tried everything I know to get rid of them, and nothing has been effective so far.

The reason I need to move my plants is because I don't have enough room to manoeuvre in the closet where my plants are growing. So I need to take each one out to effectively spray all the leaves.

I do spray both sides of the leaves. But here's the thing, even if I spray every single plant, within two days aphids are back covering them. I've tried spraying every couple days, they still come back within 48 hours.

Right now I'm not even seeing any ants crawling around, but as you see from the picture there are plenty of aphids anyway.

I think the aphids are definitely damaging my plants - because the more often I notice them on my plants, the more I begin to notice leaf problems, like discolored leaves, yellowing leaves that fall off, and so on. at the moment most of my plants are winning the battle, but I did have a cayenne which started out very healthy but on which every leaf eventually yellowed and fell off! I have now moved that plant outside, and fortunately slowly but surely leaves are beginning to regrow. I'm pretty sure it was the aphids that destroyed that plant, by sucking the life out of it, because there really isn't any other explanation.

I am using "neem bliss" pure neem oil which does not expire until 2022. Originally I was following the instructions on the bottle and using 1 1/2 tsp per quart of water but I think this was part of what was causing leaf damage to my plants before. It seemed that amount of neem was too high, and even if I left them to dry in darkness overnight, once the light came back on, the leaves were getting burned. So now I am just using 1/2 tsp of neem per quart with 1/4 tsp of dr bonner's soap as an emulsifier.

I will keep applying neem religiously to every plant where I see aphids every few days and see what the situation is in a couple of weeks. What is the next step if neem doesn't do the trick?

I think that what you are seeing are the aphids, aphid eggs, and aphid skins as they will shed their skins as they grow. As far as killing them the only reason I can think of that they haven't completely disappeared is that your Neem Oil isn't any good anymore. I have found that an opened bottle of neem will last about 6 months max. I wished they sold the stuff in smaller quantities. Unopened I don't know as I open it as soon as I get home. Go get some Safers Insecticidal Soap. There has to be a reason for your problem and this is the simplest reason I can think of because Aphids are weak creatures and not hard to kill at all. Forget the Neem for the time being. Use 1 to 1 1/2 tablespoons of the Dr Bonners soap per quart of water. Try this and if it doesn't work go get the Safers. You must get the stuff on the insect to kill it as the soap has zero residual effect.