No Dig vs Organic vs HK Containers

[Meadowlark]

How about potatoes? Typically, I see much better production from in ground planted potatoes over HK container grown potatoes.

One pound of Sarpo Mira seed potatoes were planted in the respective places about three weeks ago.

The No dig potatoes have 5 very tiny (less than 1/2 inch tall) plants showing. The Organic potatoes have 12 plants showing (as tall as 11 inches and very thick). The HK container has 5 plants showing (as tall as 6 inches and very thick). The HK to Organic matches what I've seen in years past. The No Dig looks pretty sad by comparison.

Here is the No Dig spread:

Contrast that with the Organic row

And finally, the HK container:

 

[Meadowlark]

In terms of harvesting leafy veggies, the production isn't even close. I regularly harvest kale, swiss chard, lettuce, radish from these three locations recording the amounts.

From left to right, "No Dig", "Organic", and "HK container".

 

[Steve @ Celtic Farm]

Absolutely, no-dig gardening does work for many gardeners. "Work" means it successfully grows healthy plants and can yield as much, if not more, produce than traditional methods. The benefits of no-dig include improved soil health due to less disturbance, better water retention, and easier weed management. It's also less labor-intensive than traditional digging or setting up Hügelkultur beds. As for taste, that usually depends more on the vegetable variety and growing conditions rather than the method used. So if you're aiming for a productive garden with less physical work, no-dig could be worth a try.

 

[Meadowlark]

... So if you're aiming for a productive garden with less physical work, no-dig could be worth a try.

Less work...yes. Productive garden...NO.

Side-by- side- by- side No DIG is running anywhere from 10 to 20 times less productive than organic soil and HK containers. It isn't even close, and it is obvious to anyone ...just look at the above photo.

Seeds do not geminate as well; plants grow significantly slower; plants are significantly less robust and produce remarkably less in No Dig in my ongoing experiment involving about 10 veggies. Not one veggie, not a single one in the No Dig row has produced anywhere near as well as the organic row and the HK containers.

Do they grow? Yes.

Does it "yield as much, if not more, produce than traditional methods"? Absolutely NOT in my garden.

I still have another few weeks to go in this experiment, but there is absolutely no doubt as to the outcome...only thing left to determine is just how large the No Dig penalty is.

 

[Mr_Yan]

Well knowing what you did to make the "no NPK required" organic vs what is needed to make an HK bed I'll use this as confirmation bias and keep building my raised beds in the HK wood core style.

This year I have some diakon radish growing as snow is starting to fall. They are a few that show 8 inch tall radish above ground almost 2 inches in diameter.

 

[Meadowlark]

This year I have some diakon radish growing as snow is starting to fall. They are a few that show 8 inch tall radish above ground almost 2 inches in diameter.

That is an amazing plant. It is more amazing to me that it isn't much more widely utilized. If I had clay garden soils which I do not, no question it would be first choice to recondition it.

They are surprisingly good to eat also. I use a potato peeler and peel them like a carrot...and they are delicious raw. The heat is mostly in the skin of a radish and those little red round ones are very difficult to peel but not the daikons.

The daikon is a fixture in my garden.

The health benefits of eating radishes:

MSN

 

[Mr_Yan]

Have to admit it but I kind of forgot about eating these diakons... I remember a fusion restaurant I went to that had pickled diakon as a side and, yeah, I want to figure out how to make that.

This foodblog has a recipe that looks quick and easy, along with the typical bloated foodblog nonsense.

Pickled Daikon Radish (Japanese Style) | Pickled Plum

Make this easy umami packed Japanese Style Pickled Daikon recipe. Perfect with a side of white rice or to enjoy as a snack.

pickledplum.com

 

[Meadowlark]

That is a recipe that I'm going to try...tomorrow. Sounds great and can't wait to try it. I noticed they also peel the daikon. Needs to sit for two days to pickle and that will be hard to wait on cause I'm anxious to try it. Thanks for posting that recipe.

 

[Meadowlark]

In process:

 

[Mr_Yan]

I only found the recipe and thought it looked good. I have not yet made it. I think some thin sliced daikon pickled like this would be a great topping on bibambop or other pan-Asian style rice bowl.

I am growing "Scav-N_Gar" radish. These are bred for green manure and cover cropping. Think the flavor would be any good?

 

[Meadowlark]

"Scav-N_Gar" radish looks just like daikon radishes and seems to do the same things.

 

[Meadowlark]

The results for potatoes are in and confirm the previous trends.

Th HK container grew 98 ounces of new potatoes from 16 ounces of Sarpo Mira seed potato with the largest potato equaling 18 ounces. This result was reasonably consistent with results experienced in other experiments previously.

The "organic row" produced 73 ounces of new potatoes from 16 ounces of Sarpo Mira seed with the largest potato going 12 ounces. This result was considerably lower than results experienced in other experiments previously.

The "No Dig" row produced 38 ounces of new potatoes from 16 ounces of Sarpo Mira seed with the largest potato equaling 8 ounces.

The potatoes experienced one frost down to about 33 deg F during the growing period. That frost reduced production somewhat perhaps explaining the low number for the organic row.

Photos don't lie and this one clearly shows the contrast between HK container production on right vs organic production in center vs No Dig production on the left.

 

[Meadowlark]

SUMMARY RESULTS:

​	​	​	​	​	​
Type	Planting Date	Production No Dig	Production Organic	Production HK Container	​
​	​	​	​	​	​
Sarpo Mira potatoes	Aug. 29	38​	73​	98​	​
Lieutenant broccoli	Aug. 28	22​	97​	56​	​
Swiss Chard	Aug. 29	1.9​	34​	64​	​
Prizm kale	Aug. 29	3​	8​	12​	​
Early Wakefield Cabbage	Sept. 1	6​	87​	28​	​
Sprouting Broc	Sept. 1	​	8.1​	8.3​	​
radish white	7-Sep​	35​	40​	40​	​
Radish red	Sept. 4	12​	23​	40​	​
Lettuce	Sept. 4	2.5​	5​	6​	​
Sweet Peas	Sept. 4	1.8​	4​	3.9​	​
Red Cabbage	Sept. 7	2​	5.5​	7.5​	​
total ounces	​	124.2​	384.6​	363.7​	872.5​

In general, across 12 different veggies, the organic row and HK containers, out produced the "No Dig" row by at least 3 to 1.

To those who claim "No Dig" outproduces other methods, I say prove it!! My data shows otherwise by a large margin.


Recall the three methods of soil prep compared:

Type	Compost	Chop and Drop	Green Manure
No Dig	1 inch placed on top of soil	NO	NO
Organic	Several inches mixed into soil	Yes, two generations of peas	Yes, full crop of peas turned under.
HK containers	Several inches mixed into soil	Yes, two generations of peas	Yes, full crop of peas turned under.

Just looking at the above table, any gardener could predict the superior producing soil.

Does "No Dig" work? Yes, it will grow veggies but at significantly reduced production compared to other methods.

 

[Mr_Yan]

I'm a little surprised that some crops show a strong preference for Organic or HK but some don't. Broccoli and early cabbage nominally doubled in Organic but the Red cabbage doubled in the HK.

Anyway this has been rattling around in my head since reading a thread here referencing the expensive "Mel's Mix" from square foot garden or other expensive peat based "Living Soils". Do you see anything beneficial to adding either bio char (trendy and there may be some data there) or mineralizing with rockdust?

As you know I fill my raised beds in a similar manner to these HK containers but I am much more lazy and laid back as I just use any vegetation and sticks I have at hand when filling them. Then I don't really revive the bed for a few seasons. I do tend to see a lot of compaction or settling in my beds over the first season. It's probably just voids filling but I can lose 4" in an 18" deep bed during that first season.

 

[Meadowlark]

... Do you see anything beneficial to adding either bio char (trendy and there may be some data there) or mineralizing with rockdust?

I think it depends on the situation. They can be beneficial amendment "tools" but other "tools" we have, e.g. composted animal manures, cover crops that fix N2 and enable chop and drop and green manure applications are all far more powerful and effective soil building tools in my view and if one is using those to the max, then perhaps bio char and/or rockdust might provide a little additional edge. They seem to both act a bit like ag. lime in increasing ph and soil porosity. But without the heavy lifting tools, bio char is pretty much insignificant.

Regarding the red cabbage in the above experiment, it was basically a failure coming in with single digit production ounces in all three mediums. The 100 deg temps it had to endure to get started pretty much did in the production. I kinda think that the weather had much more of an effect on it.

Just my thoughts.