Please HELP! My plants are suffering :(

[baniberry]

Hello!

Amidst this COVID crisis and with some classes being cancelled, I embarked on a mission to create a thriving diverse garden despite having little time.

I've put so much effort and money into this only to see that my plants are now all dying. Many I've started from seed, some purchased young. I've never had this issue before when gardening in the past.

How I built it:
I dug out about a 6-8 inch deep rectangle that is 8'x16'. The soil here is thick clay, very hard when dry, super muddy when wet - so I could not plant in the soil.
-I framed it with 4''x4'' pieces so it is about 10-12'' deep.
-I filled it with composted horse maneur purchased from someone off Craigslist (I'm in a small upstate NY town where theres plenty of farms).

My plants were all very healthy indoors and growing nicely with deep green leaves. My Squash seemed to have some issue however, and so did my Ichiban eggplant, but they were flowering and surviving alright (I'm assuming its aphids or some pest issue - for which I've ordered neem oil for - will be making my own spray when it comes).

The night after planting, temperatures dropped to around 40F which was not predicted. However, plants that did not get transplanted into the garden bed seem to have done fine being outside that night (now 6 days ago and those still look pretty healthy).


Is it just shock? nitrogen burn? Nutrient deficiency? Iron deficiency? (but its composted maneur - not so smelly ...isnt that nutrient rich?)

The leaves are yellowing for the most part, but with white and brown colors mixed in. I do have some rabbits eating the plants so I am in the process of finishing up a garden fence today (1'' chicken wire, 5ft high). I see some new growth but they're also not as green as they should be.

I did buy a rapitest electronic soil tester but not sure if it works. Feels very flimsy. However pH said 6.5, but then it seemed like there was possibly low fertility reading on the meter - I am very unsure about how trustworthy this is. I would hate to have added garden tone only to find out it was excess nitrogen in case maneur has not thoroughly composted...but I ended up sprinkling a little garden tone around the tomato plants because they seemed to be rapidly declining.
I would sincerely appreciate any help anyone can give me before everything dies. All I want is a thriving happy garden!

 

[Chuck]

Hello!

Amidst this COVID crisis and with some classes being cancelled, I embarked on a mission to create a thriving diverse garden despite having little time.

I've put so much effort and money into this only to see that my plants are now all dying. Many I've started from seed, some purchased young. I've never had this issue before when gardening in the past.

How I built it:
I dug out about a 6-8 inch deep rectangle that is 8'x16'. The soil here is thick clay, very hard when dry, super muddy when wet - so I could not plant in the soil.
-I framed it with 4''x4'' pieces so it is about 10-12'' deep.
-I filled it with composted horse maneur purchased from someone off Craigslist (I'm in a small upstate NY town where theres plenty of farms).

My plants were all very healthy indoors and growing nicely with deep green leaves. My Squash seemed to have some issue however, and so did my Ichiban eggplant, but they were flowering and surviving alright (I'm assuming its aphids or some pest issue - for which I've ordered neem oil for - will be making my own spray when it comes).

The night after planting, temperatures dropped to around 40F which was not predicted. However, plants that did not get transplanted into the garden bed seem to have done fine being outside that night (now 6 days ago and those still look pretty healthy).


Is it just shock? nitrogen burn? Nutrient deficiency? Iron deficiency? (but its composted maneur - not so smelly ...isnt that nutrient rich?)

The leaves are yellowing for the most part, but with white and brown colors mixed in. I do have some rabbits eating the plants so I am in the process of finishing up a garden fence today (1'' chicken wire, 5ft high). I see some new growth but they're also not as green as they should be.

I did buy a rapitest electronic soil tester but not sure if it works. Feels very flimsy. However pH said 6.5, but then it seemed like there was possibly low fertility reading on the meter - I am very unsure about how trustworthy this is. I would hate to have added garden tone only to find out it was excess nitrogen in case maneur has not thoroughly composted...but I ended up sprinkling a little garden tone around the tomato plants because they seemed to be rapidly declining.
I would sincerely appreciate any help anyone can give me before everything dies. All I want is a thriving happy garden!

What I want you to do is fill a bucket half full of the horse manure and fill it up with water and stir it. Then wait 24 hours and pour this stuff over a broadleaf weed such as a dandelion. In a couple of days if the dandelion is still ok then the manure bought off of Craigslist is OK but from the looks of things there is a distinct possiblilty that the hay the horse was eating is contaminated with a chemical herbicide called picloram. If so, then your entire garden is ruined and will stay that way for years. Many if not most hay growers are using this and other chemicals to keep weeds out of their fields. If the manure is OK after this test, post back with new pictures and we will have a better idea of whats going on.

As it looks now, another possibility is a lack of trace minerals, mainly iron, magnesium and manganese. The way to fix this is to apply Chelated Iron with a follow up of Liquid Humus/Humate. The results of this is fairly quick. You can start seeing results within a week

 

[oneeye]

You have so much organic matter in the mix its tying up the nitrogen and showing a deficient. All organic matter uses large amounts of nitrogen to decompose and breakdown. If you want to stay organic use some blood meal and spread it around the base of the plants for a easy fix. Water it in and wait a week and you will see a big difference. I like to watch what I put on plants that grow food I eat.

 

[headfullofbees]

Drink lots of beer.
Save the resultant urine.
Dilute it 1 part urine to 9 parts water.
Feed your soil with this every time you water.
Some seaweed extract will help with any nutrient deficiency.

 

[baniberry]

What I want you to do is fill a bucket half full of the horse manure and fill it up with water and stir it. Then wait 24 hours and pour this stuff over a broadleaf weed such as a dandelion. In a couple of days if the dandelion is still ok then the manure bought off of Craigslist is OK but from the looks of things there is a distinct possiblilty that the hay the horse was eating is contaminated with a chemical herbicide called picloram. If so, then your entire garden is ruined and will stay that way for years. Many if not most hay growers are using this and other chemicals to keep weeds out of their fields. If the manure is OK after this test, post back with new pictures and we will have a better idea of whats going on.

As it looks now, another possibility is a lack of trace minerals, mainly iron, magnesium and manganese. The way to fix this is to apply Chelated Iron with a follow up of Liquid Humus/Humate. The results of this is fairly quick. You can start seeing results within a week

Wow - herbicide contamination. I never would have thought. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention - I will scrutinize any farmers compost much more for now on and fingers crossed it is not the issue.

 

[baniberry]

Drink lots of beer.
Save the resultant urine.
Dilute it 1 part urine to 9 parts water.
Feed your soil with this every time you water.
Some seaweed extract will help with any nutrient deficiency.

I may have to get someone to help me with this...I think I've got some yuenglings in the fridge! thank you!

 

[baniberry]

You have so much organic matter in the mix its tying up the nitrogen and showing a deficient. All organic matter uses large amounts of nitrogen to decompose and breakdown. If you want to stay organic use some blood meal and spread it around the base of the plants for a easy fix. Water it in and wait a week and you will see a big difference. I like to watch what I put on plants that grow food I eat.

Yes absolutely...thank you. I am going to send the soil in for analysis today - I'll report back, and purchase some blood meal.

 

[baniberry]

What I want you to do is fill a bucket half full of the horse manure and fill it up with water and stir it. Then wait 24 hours and pour this stuff over a broadleaf weed such as a dandelion. In a couple of days if the dandelion is still ok then the manure bought off of Craigslist is OK but from the looks of things there is a distinct possiblilty that the hay the horse was eating is contaminated with a chemical herbicide called picloram. If so, then your entire garden is ruined and will stay that way for years. Many if not most hay growers are using this and other chemicals to keep weeds out of their fields. If the manure is OK after this test, post back with new pictures and we will have a better idea of whats going on.

As it looks now, another possibility is a lack of trace minerals, mainly iron, magnesium and manganese. The way to fix this is to apply Chelated Iron with a follow up of Liquid Humus/Humate. The results of this is fairly quick. You can start seeing results within a week

There does not seem to be a herbicide contamination - also there's a lot of weeds growing in the garden! That means something, right?

The soil analysis will take 3 weeks they said as they are super busy - but the pH came out very alkaline (over 7, was not readable as it was very alkaline) which I suspect is making any nutrients in the soil unavailable. The people at the store were surprised.
I began treating the soil with the sulfur based soil acidifier by epsom a and I also treated the plant leaves with copper fungicide and neem oil. I also fed my plants with the performance organics line plant and vegetable food by miracle grow that I have. Plants seem to be doing a bit better.

I'm going to look into the iron and liquid humus later this week after giving it some time. I was told it can take a month for the pH to correct

 

[Chuck]

There does not seem to be a herbicide contamination - also there's a lot of weeds growing in the garden! That means something, right?

The soil analysis will take 3 weeks they said as they are super busy - but the pH came out very alkaline (over 7, was not readable as it was very alkaline) which I suspect is making any nutrients in the soil unavailable. The people at the store were surprised.
I began treating the soil with the sulfur based soil acidifier by epsom a and I also treated the plant leaves with copper fungicide and neem oil. I also fed my plants with the performance organics line plant and vegetable food by miracle grow that I have. Plants seem to be doing a bit better.

I'm going to look into the iron and liquid humus later this week after giving it some time. I was told it can take a month for the pH to correct

Having alkaline soils is not such a terrible thing. Mine is really alkaline and its something you just have to get used to. Another poster on another thread had pictures of his plants and they were exactly like yours. In fact, the whole situation was remarkably similar. I remembered your post and began to wonder if I was missing something so I did a little research and found out something that I don't understand. Fertilization and rapid temperature drop do not go together. When this happened to your plants you were, in essence, fertilizing your plants with horse manure and you had a severe temperature drop. What happens next is what I don't understand, the temperature drop and the fertilization at the same time made the water in the leaves "migrate" back to the roots leaving the leaves basically dry and allowing the cold air to further dry out the leaves. I never knew water could just leave and what about the cholorophyl, where does it go? I am still looking into this but data is scattered. But since herbicide damage is now non-existent and you will soon get your test results back maybe we can finally figure out what went wrong

?

 

[baniberry]

Having alkaline soils is not such a terrible thing. Mine is really alkaline and its something you just have to get used to. Another poster on another thread had pictures of his plants and they were exactly like yours. In fact, the whole situation was remarkably similar. I remembered your post and began to wonder if I was missing something so I did a little research and found out something that I don't understand. Fertilization and rapid temperature drop do not go together. When this happened to your plants you were, in essence, fertilizing your plants with horse manure and you had a severe temperature drop. What happens next is what I don't understand, the temperature drop and the fertilization at the same time made the water in the leaves "migrate" back to the roots leaving the leaves basically dry and allowing the cold air to further dry out the leaves. I never knew water could just leave and what about the cholorophyl, where does it go? I am still looking into this but data is scattered. But since herbicide damage is now non-existent and you will soon get your test results back maybe we can finally figure out what went wrong

?

Yes there is so much to consider, looking forward to the analysis result. That's interesting your soil is so alkaline. I dont have that much experience, but from what I read, soil too alkaline can make certain nutrients unavailable to plants, especially iron. It becomes inactive (similar to our own body where pH being thrown off can throw off active and inactive forms of vitamins). So I figure it's safe to gradually drop the pH as most plants like it acidic. And since it takes so long to correct, I figure feeding the garden nutrients in the meantime can help. I did notice that the plants have not worsened. One tomato is beginning to form flower buds! But all of them seem to have stunted in their growth (no real growth noticed in any plant since transplantation).

I guess I'll need to just be patient and see.

The temperature drop and fertilizer is definitely an interesting thought. They do all seem to have faded in pigment to an extent, the tomato plants being the most faded - but younger leaves are green! Will take photos later this week.

 

[alp]

Clay itself is very rich in nutrients. All you need to do is to break up it up and so that things grown on it can breathe. Add plenty of grit, horticultural sharp sand or even perlite if you can afford it, well rotted organic matter. The first round of planting really doesn't need horse manure. Only apply horse manure after growing season, incorporate it and then let worms do their business.

A lot of plants enjoy growing on clay alkaline soil. You overthink too much, like a eager responsible parent having his/her first child!

 

[Chuck]

Yes there is so much to consider, looking forward to the analysis result. That's interesting your soil is so alkaline. I dont have that much experience, but from what I read, soil too alkaline can make certain nutrients unavailable to plants, especially iron. It becomes inactive (similar to our own body where pH being thrown off can throw off active and inactive forms of vitamins). So I figure it's safe to gradually drop the pH as most plants like it acidic. And since it takes so long to correct, I figure feeding the garden nutrients in the meantime can help. I did notice that the plants have not worsened. One tomato is beginning to form flower buds! But all of them seem to have stunted in their growth (no real growth noticed in any plant since transplantation).

I guess I'll need to just be patient and see.

The temperature drop and fertilizer is definitely an interesting thought. They do all seem to have faded in pigment to an extent, the tomato plants being the most faded - but younger leaves are green! Will take photos later this week.

In my soil limestone is the bedrock and thus I have an overabundance of calcium in my soil. So much calcium that the plants have a very difficult time of uptaking it. I get a lot blossom end rot on tomatoes, peppers, melons, just about everything except corn and beans. So much so that I cannot grow tomatoes at all without epsom salt. Iron not so much, but it still happens. One just has to know what to look for and then remedy it. You will not have much luck in changing the Ph of your soil for the long term. It will be a never ending process of keeping the Ph to lower levels. I tried it for years, everything from vinegar to sulfur and all of the other things to lower Ph. It would lower it somewhat but it just wouldn't last. I finally just gave up and learned how to deal with the high Ph, mainly a lot of epsom salts, liquid humus and chelated iron. My soil is loamy, yours is clay, so I really can't compare the two but from an old lifelong gardener I believe you will be better off by knowing and understanding what you have than trying to change things into something that they aren't.

 

[alp]

Epsom salt is brilliant in aiding plants taking up nutrients. Can't do much harm. Have you actually tested the pH of your soil? Unless horse manure is well rotted as those sold in garden centre, it shouldn't really be applied direct.

 

[baniberry]

Epsom salt is brilliant in aiding plants taking up nutrients. Can't do much harm. Have you actually tested the pH of your soil? Unless horse manure is well rotted as those sold in garden centre, it shouldn't really be applied direct.

Yes pH was tested and it came out above 7.4 - too alkaline for them to read actually.
Guy who sold the manure to me said it was well aged and it looked good when I got it. No smell. Almost black colored soil with good consistency.
I'll look into adding epsom salt to the bed.

 

[baniberry]

Clay itself is very rich in nutrients. All you need to do is to break up it up and so that things grown on it can breathe. Add plenty of grit, horticultural sharp sand or even perlite if you can afford it, well rotted organic matter. The first round of planting really doesn't need horse manure. Only apply horse manure after growing season, incorporate it and then let worms do their business.

A lot of plants enjoy growing on clay alkaline soil. You overthink too much, like a eager responsible parent having his/her first child!

The soil here is so incredibly thick and clay like that to mix the soil would be incredibly difficult. I have not had good luck planting in this soil before. I'm sure things can be done but I'd need some extra special equipment. Digging out a rectangle and filling it with workable soil was the only option I had for the time and equipment available to me ...but if clay soil can be made to be workable then maybe next year I will plan on working with it!