Reduce weeds before renovating garden?

[Becky]

Just thought someone could learn some gardening pointers from from an old man but I guess not. Bye Bye and please remove my name from the membership roster.

Of course they can learn from more experienced gardeners, but there are better ways to convey advice.

If you don't wish to receive notifications then you are free to unsubscribe from them. If you need assistance please let me know.

 

[Amateur Gardener]

If Roundup is banned in the Netherlands, you can inquire about other weed killers such as Bonide, Spectracide, Eliminator, Monterey Remuda, or Ortho.

 

[DirtMechanic]

Amazon has a goat rental service, and there are websites like http://werentgoats.com but of course they need to be able to get to you. I like the idea of the goats not only nipping your weeds but also returning said nutrients to your soil in an appropriately garden ready pelleted package. The fastest compost system I know of is an animal.

 

[DirtMechanic]

personally I would make the goats carry small signs whereby I could sell ads and thus recover my carbon footprint, or money, whichever is more dear.

 

[Meadowlark]

Turn the present growth under, plant a winter cover crop and turn it under next spring enough in advance of garden planting for the cover crop to compost.

You are spot on SeniorCitizen. Excellent advise! Too bad you were ignored.

 

[Chuck]

You are spot on SeniorCitizen. Excellent advise! Too bad you were ignored.

OK. Turn it over and plant a cover crop. What happens to all of the weeds? Do they just disappear? They won't come back? Where do they go? I forgot, they are organic matter and are composted. How about the seeds. They won't compost by tilling under. Wouldn't it be better to kill ALL of the weeds in spring instead of fighting them all summer and forever after? You've got to kill the seeds or you will be in a constant battle with all kinds of weeds. By tilling you bring up sometimes years old seeds and then when they grow if you miss mowing or hoeing or what ever you do, one plant, a little too late you have hundreds of new weeds. And what about the weeds that spread by underground roots and ryzomes. I suppose if the OP wanted to spend hours tilling twice every year and weeding every day it would finally work but I think he would rather spend his time growing and inspecting his plants while at the same time doing minor weeding with a Hula Hoe. He will only miss one season. I think one season is a small price to pay to get rid of the jungle he has now once and far all.

 

[Meadowlark]

I hate black plastic, absolutely hate what it does to garden soil. I would never, ever subject my living soils to that torture. To say that the only choices are chemicals or black plastic is absolutely ridiculous.

SeniorCitizen suggested a third option which I completely endorse and have used successfully for many years. Cover crops are absolutely remarkable at reducing/eliminating weeds. Planted thickly cover crops prevent weed seed germination and growth. Not only that but they add vital nutrients to the soils and drive away pests like nematodes. So many benefits for cover crops, so easy to use.

I use them year around. In the fall/winter, I like the clovers, the small grains, turnips, the elbon rye which form carpets of cover that few weeds can penetrate. Nematodes flee the soils that have these covers on them.

In summer, rotations of legumes like cow peas and beans are just absolutely fabulous for soil building and weed prevention. I have had up to four cycles of plant, grow, shred, grow, shred, grow and shred in one growing season only planting once the entire season and never weeding one time. Plus I harvest some peas and beans as you go but leave enough for regeneration. It absolutely works. It is fantastic in the results it produces. Its the easiest labor saving way to build garden soils while reducing/eliminating weeds and many pests.

My soils are alive, thriving and virtually weed free. I started gardening in an old hay field about 40 years ago...and without cover crops would have long ago abandoned that site because of the weeds. Now it is virtually weed free. It never needs artificial fertilizers...and is never sprayed with chemicals. There is no need to. I can't imagine gardening without cover crops. Way too much work, too many weeds, too many pests.

To suggest that this is not a viable alternative is utterly incorrect.

 

[DirtMechanic]

I hate black plastic, absolutely hate what it does to garden soil. I would never, ever subject my living soils to that torture. To say that the only choices are chemicals or black plastic is absolutely ridiculous.

SeniorCitizen suggested a third option which I completely endorse and have used successfully for many years. Cover crops are absolutely remarkable at reducing/eliminating weeds. Planted thickly cover crops prevent weed seed germination and growth. Not only that but they add vital nutrients to the soils and drive away pests like nematodes. So many benefits for cover crops, so easy to use.

I use them year around. In the fall/winter, I like the clovers, the small grains, turnips, the elbon rye which form carpets of cover that few weeds can penetrate. Nematodes flee the soils that have these covers on them.

View attachment 51066


In summer, rotations of legumes like cow peas and beans are just absolutely fabulous for soil building and weed prevention. I have had up to four cycles of plant, grow, shred, grow, shred, grow and shred in one growing season only planting once the entire season and never weeding one time. Plus I harvest some peas and beans as you go but leave enough for regeneration. It absolutely works. It is fantastic in the results it produces. Its the easiest labor saving way to build garden soils while reducing/eliminating weeds and many pests.




View attachment 51071


My soils are alive, thriving and virtually weed free. I started gardening in an old hay field about 40 years ago...and without cover crops would have long ago abandoned that site because of the weeds. Now it is virtually weed free. It never needs artificial fertilizers...and is never sprayed with chemicals. There is no need to. I can't imagine gardening without cover crops. Way too much work, too many weeds, too many pests.

To suggest that this is not a viable alternative is utterly incorrect.

Do you buy clover seed or these other cover crop seeds? I was looking at buying clover and wow was it ever expensive relative to other seed such as grass seeds I was looking at then.

 

[Meadowlark]

Yes, my local feed store sells a lot of seed to Texas deer hunters for plantings. I get some pretty good prices and it is readily available. Last year I got 50 pound bag of crimson for free because it was damaged goods. Really was nice.

The summer covers seed is relatively cheap. Buy a bag of black-eyed peas and that will do me all summer....except I like to also get purple hulls, cream peas, pintos, etc. for eating as well as cover. In mid August when everyone else has given up on their gardens around here, I'm going strong with cover crops...constantly building soil. Its how I make weeding easy in my old age, LOL.

 

[roadrunner]

I need an animal genetically engineered to eat only chickweed and another one to only eat yellow nutsedge.

 

[Chuck]

I hate black plastic, absolutely hate what it does to garden soil. I would never, ever subject my living soils to that torture. To say that the only choices are chemicals or black plastic is absolutely ridiculous.

SeniorCitizen suggested a third option which I completely endorse and have used successfully for many years. Cover crops are absolutely remarkable at reducing/eliminating weeds. Planted thickly cover crops prevent weed seed germination and growth. Not only that but they add vital nutrients to the soils and drive away pests like nematodes. So many benefits for cover crops, so easy to use.

I use them year around. In the fall/winter, I like the clovers, the small grains, turnips, the elbon rye which form carpets of cover that few weeds can penetrate. Nematodes flee the soils that have these covers on them.

View attachment 51066


In summer, rotations of legumes like cow peas and beans are just absolutely fabulous for soil building and weed prevention. I have had up to four cycles of plant, grow, shred, grow, shred, grow and shred in one growing season only planting once the entire season and never weeding one time. Plus I harvest some peas and beans as you go but leave enough for regeneration. It absolutely works. It is fantastic in the results it produces. Its the easiest labor saving way to build garden soils while reducing/eliminating weeds and many pests.




View attachment 51071


My soils are alive, thriving and virtually weed free. I started gardening in an old hay field about 40 years ago...and without cover crops would have long ago abandoned that site because of the weeds. Now it is virtually weed free. It never needs artificial fertilizers...and is never sprayed with chemicals. There is no need to. I can't imagine gardening without cover crops. Way too much work, too many weeds, too many pests.

To suggest that this is not a viable alternative is utterly incorrect.

I agree with much of what you say. Regarding cover crops I couldn't agree more but here is where we disagree. Not on raw unimproved soil. As you stated plastic does kill soil microbes but these microbes are easily replaced at or before first planting by incorporating compost, other organic materials and carbohydrates such as molasses at the time you till for the first time. Using cover crops after the first year is great at building the soil and adding nutrients but tilling under and bringing up years of seeds, both winter and summer seeds, is to me counter productive. Cover crops in the winter may kill most of the winter seeds but it does nothing to summer seeds except make more of them sprout in the spring and summer. You have effectively buried the new winter seeds which is fine unless the OP wants to have a winter garden the following year. But I agree, cover crops are a wonderful thing to use. I can see doing as you say, but for the entire first year and not just for the winter.

 

[Sam Edward]

Wonderful idea. Thank you for this idea

 

[Meadowlark]

The original date of this post was late Sept. absolutely a perfect time for following SeniorCitizen's advise and turning it under and planting cover crops.

Turn the present growth under, plant a winter cover crop and turn it under next spring enough in advance of garden planting for the cover crop to compost.

"Not on raw unimproved soil" ...is not what he recommended. He said turn it under first, then plant cover and turn it under again the following spring.

Spot on advise by SeniorCitizen. I hope he wasn't run off this forum.

 

[Chuck]

The original date of this post was late Sept. absolutely a perfect time for following SeniorCitizen's advise and turning it under and planting cover crops.



"Not on raw unimproved soil" ...is not what he recommended. He said turn it under first, then plant cover and turn it under again the following spring.

Spot on advise by SeniorCitizen. I hope he wasn't run off this forum.

And when you turn it under again in the spring you have brought up summer seeds. And you have turned under more seeds that haven't germinated. Isn't it much easier to just kill the winter and summer seeds all at the same time and then use cover crops the following fall and winter?

 

[treeguy]

After the solarization and turning the soil you will grow as many weeds as before unless you make it difficult for seeds to germinate. You should have thick mulch of anything you can get your hands on, and it should be there year-around. I put 6"+ on the garden each autumn, I turn that under after it has degenerated to about 2" each spring. I immediately use another 6" of leaves and then all my grass clippings go on top of that all summer. I save leaves every autumn and put more leaves on after I pull the roots of the garden plants. Actually, I save others people's leaves in the nice bags they put them in for use in spring after I turn-in what's there.

There are weed seeds added to the area every year. Some of those are activated by sunlight and germinate, the rest will remain dormant, some for a hundred years or until they are activated by the right conditions, some combination of sunlight, warmth, and moisture. Plowing at night deprives seeds of the solar activation that is more important than any other condition. Having a mulch pile at hand for immediate use after turning your garden will help the process.

You will be your worst enemy in the war on weeds. Some seeds will blow in from your friends and neighbors, but the biggest contribution of seeds will come from plants that go to seed right there on your garden. If you always pull weeds before they get to the flowering stage you will shortcut 90% of the contributors of next year's weeds. Most of the weeds will grow on or next to your pathways in the garden if your garden has 6" of mulch on it.

I'm old and have a smaller garden than most. After some years you will hone in on what's worth your effort in time and space. Some things take a lot of room, and some things don't taste that much better than what you can buy in season, so eventually you'll only grow what fits your space and time. I have found that everything needs a path in-between rows, and that path is about the same, year-to-year and plant-to-plant, and the plants need about the same plot size, too. So, I divided my garden into four 30" wide rows with four 24" paths in-between. The paths have six 24" square cement patio blocks. I rotate my crops row-to-row, but the paths are permanent.

Actually, I don't don't turn the whole pot over every spring, usually just the ground that I need to plant. A 18" diameter hole 12" deep is all a tomato plant needs. Same for cukes and pumpkins, and half that for leaf lettuce. For a row of peas, just a trench one shovel wide the length of the trellis. I use two driveway gates of chain link fencing stood on end and connected with electrical zip ties to each other in the middle and to the black posts you see in each individual plot. The tomato go up one pole and cukes go up the other in one plot, and snow peas go up the 72" high trellis. Each autumn I move the trellis to the next plot.
I use the 48" chain link fence at the far end as an alternate trellis and pumpkin plot. One plot is a growing-on bed for bonsai. An asparagus plot runs 18' long x 48" wide along the fence beyond the front plots, with 12" cement blocks surrounding it to walk on and prevent weeds. The rabbit fence is a blessing that can't be over valued.

I only dig what I need, the rest is air space between plant and doesn't need anything done. Once in a while I do turn a whole plot, just for kicks. I occasional rabbit always has a place in my garden, about a foot deep.