Moss and couch grass.

[Colin]

Hi,

Bron and I live on a steeply sloping site; it's facing south west and the rear garden has lots of mature trees including oaks; conifers and lots of laurels. The ground is mostly rock hard being clay but with a shallow top layer of poor soil.

The grass is the original field grass and mostly in very poor condition; a farmer friend has just advised me the grass is mostly couch grass and is classed as a weed which is invasive and undesirable; there are also huge areas of thick moss as seen in the picture.

I've been watching lots of YouTube videos showing how to get rid of grass and weeds completely by laying a cardboard mat then covering the cardboard with mulch. This appeals to me but firstly I've ordered moss killer and a knapsack 5L sprayer which are due to arrive; the moss killer is advertised as "professional" it being Ivisons moss killer and lawn tonic. I'd like to kill all this moss before proceeding further; once the moss is sorted out then would laying the cardboard and mulch actually kill the entire grass including the roots? I'd like to do away with a lot of the grass and plant ground cover plus shrubs and plants; I've already planted a few Ajuga by the side of the hut and under the big trees where the soil is bare I'm considering a mix of Ajuga; Pachysandra and Vinca. I've also bought a selection of shrubs from J Parker's which are due to arrive Oct/Nov.

I want to get serious in the garden but I'm not a gardener although hope to become a decent gardener with lots of help from you experts.

Our laurels were 30' tall and I've now attacked these with the chainsaw so they are 3' tall; I've felled lots of big trees the most recent being a pair at 80' tall plus I've removed an 100' x 8' tall conifer hedge; I've spent many weeks shredding and giving logs away to neighbours with wood burners; the shredded material being used as mulch.

Over the last 30 years the bungalow has received a full and comprehensive makeover and is now finished but during these years we've planted lots of evergreens; most of the garden work though has been "fire fighting" just to keep on top of everything; I use a petrol mower and can cut the grass in about twenty minutes but it is very hard graft. The pictures are assorted taken over a few years but show the rear garden and the work it takes to keep on top. I've made lots of progress and recently built the new hut and tidied the area with new plants.

I would appreciate any ideas at all especially regarding my intention of using cardboard and mulch in order to create a blank canvass also what would be best to use over the cardboard; bark chippings or mulch; funds aren't a problem because I'm now turning this into my main hobby. The last two pictures show the newly planted area plus the dreaded moss.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[alp]

I like the 3rd photo - it's an art form! LOL!

 

[Colin]

Hi,

Thanks alp; my recollection of the third picture is one of sheer hard graft; this conifer was an 80'er and was a difficult one to fell; our good neighbour Terry was available at the time so I asked if he would be kind (silly) enough to hold the rope end whilst I enjoyed using my chainsaw; the tree was near our and our neighbours bungalow so fingers crossed I got it right and dropped it where wanted; I cut the usual wedge then cut through from behind; at the time there were lots of shrubs including prickly holly to wade through; having cut almost through I joined Terry to give the rope a good pull but a bit more cutting was needed; when the tree let go it hung up on the willow and adjacent conifer; this was now very dangerous; I went under this big conifer and cut through the offending willow branch but as soon as I heard the tell tale sign it was going to let go I ran as fast as I could to get from under the fall; it came down with a crash the tip by our feet; good job the rope was long enough or we would have been wearing the conifer.

I removed the branches then as seen in the picture did multiple chainsaw cuts along the trunk but not quite full depth; with this done I rolled the trunk and completed the cuts; I had to be extremely careful in order not to let any of these short sections disappear down the steep garden; I was worried about them going through our kitchen window. I was amazed by how heavy these logs were even at such a short length; it tired me out carrying them all the way down to our driveway where neighbours gladly collected them. Its hard work walking up to the top of the garden.

Here's another picture showing a few of the laurels; the ones in the foreground were as tall as the rear ones; there's an oak tree in there as well; the oak remains but now the laurels are lowered to 3' high; we call our rear garden our mini park.

The moss killer has just arrived and when the knapsack sprayer arrives I'll attack the moss. Retirement makes my bones ache?

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[zigs]

Mulch won't kill couch grass as it's got such an extensive root system.

Best off waiting till it's actively growing in spring and spray it off with glyphosate a few times.

 

[Colin]

Hi,

Many thanks zigs; not the information I really wanted to hear but better knowing up front what I'm against rather than wasting lots of time and effort; thank you; I'll heed your advice and not mulch over winter but save my efforts for next spring; I can gather materials in the meantime though.

Bron and I were at a local garden centre this afternoon and they had a big pile of cardboard; I felt tempted to bring a load home but now I'm glad I didn't bother.

The Ajuga reptans Bugle seeds arrived today so I can sow (Sept/Nov) these immediately; time I got my hands dirty and stopped eating sawdust.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[zigs]

Knew it wouldn't be what you wanted to hear but better than pullin it all up and finding the roots running along the cardboard.

No worries

 

[alp]

... but as soon as I heard the tell tale sign it was going to let go I ran as fast as I could to get from under the fall; it came down with a crash the tip by our feet; good job the rope was long enough or we would have been wearing the conifer.

... I was worried about them going through our kitchen window. ...

Crikey, it could end up as tragedy! I laughed by it could really be very dangerous, especially when it is such a dense and heavy tree.

Now, I prefer to have shrubs, no more trees as they are a nightmare to saw and get rid of.

 

[Robert Cummings]

Hi there, Best to use the weed killer and moss killer in warmer weather, now we are into Autumn these chemicals will work but at a much slower rate, this is because they react to temperature. Regarding killing moss, you need to decide what has Caused the moss problem for example bad drainage, compaction etc otherwise it will just keep coming back year after year. If serious about your lawn you may wish to read up on lawn problems, may I recommend The lawn expert by Dr D Hessayon available from Amazon for a couple of quid. I've posted on here at length about lawns before in lawn forum, there is quite a bit of info there that you might like to read. No five minute fixes with lawns, a good one will take a bit of work but is very rewarding with a bit of care and attention.

 

[Colin]

Hi,


Thanks zigs; yes much better to know the bad news up front than waste lots of time and effort; I'll happily accept your advice.


I couldn't agree with you more alps regarding how dangerous the tree felling was; there are many videos on YouTube showing tree felling gone wrong and I must say watching the videos I'm not at all surprised. I chose a dead calm day which is difficult here on the valley side; I put the ladder up as high as I could and attached a strong rope which I knew to be longer than the tree height then ran the rope to the top of the garden. I had hoped the sheer weight of this big tree would bring it down between the big willow and conifer but I should have know better with my luck; a hung up tree is very bad news indeed especially in limited space but I have a strong survival instinct and am aware of problems regarding safety; I worked under the big hung up tree cutting through the willow branch but I did so putting the bulk of the willow between me and the tree being felled so although the situation could have been highly dangerous I felt quite safe; as I heard the sound of the willow branch yielding I ran up the garden border but with the willow tree protecting me; to cut such a branch which is supporting the weight of a full tree whilst working directly beneath without suitable support would mean a very short lifespan; I was trained down a deep coal mine how to survive but I wouldn't recommend others to do as I do. Terry our neighbour hadn't seen as much excitement for years.


Many thanks Robert for your most informative and interesting reply. I actually bought the book on lawn care you mention years ago and did at the time have a go at tending our lawn but unfortunately I simply couldn't spend time in the gardens due to more pressing jobs needing doing so I'll put my hand up and admit I'm solely responsible for the poor quality of our lawn as it is. Drainage isn't a problem because of the steep slope but compaction certainly is and its very compacted indeed to the point I can't get a small spade in without a great deal of effort; at one point I considered buying an Howard cultivator but given the steepness of the garden; poor access for machinery and the many tree roots it was simply a non starter. I've just erected a fence and sinking the post holes was plain hard graft; I bought a long chisel for my big SDS drill; pity I can't dynamite the lot to break it up. I know I'm not alone in this and like others the only solution is going to be hard work and lots of time but now I've got the time and I'm not afraid of hard work. I will indeed browse your previous posts in depth as I'm now keen to learn about all things gardening; I have friends who have allotments and a farmer friend so I'm pestering all these with my basic questions; this is how I discovered about couch grass; being a novice I thought grass was grass although I knew there were lots of types of grass but I didn't know about couch grass. Our soil is very poor indeed as shown by the toadstools which appear and of course the massive amount of moss. When I did have a go at our lawn all those years ago having read the read the book; I set about aerating the soil and made my own tool in the form of a heavy fork as shown below; the weight of this fork was useful in penetrating the soil but I didn't have time to start top dressing etc; I did however apply lawn feed and weed but as I say this was years ago and now the grass is suffering; time it received some TLC?


I think perhaps patience is going to be the best way to treat our garden; I do very much appreciate both yours Robert and zig's advice and its pointless me asking for advice if I don't accept it so next springtime is lawn time; I can busy myself on the border where I've ordered a number of shrubs to plant and look for other jobs I can do in the garden like using the cold frame over winter.


I don't want to be a pest asking lots of questions where I can obtain answers by browsing the web and this forum but at the moment it's knowing where best to start. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm built like a stick insect being only just over ten stones in weight and a lanky six feet tall; I have a number of health problems being born with them starting with asthma which I grew out of but over the years I've been in and out of hospital; last year I was rushed into hospital as an emergency being doubled over in agony crying like a child spending three days hooked up to NASA with lots of tubes sticking out of me; I have to be very careful what I eat due to dairy intolerance and I've suffered major surgery for Crohn's disease in 1982. In 1970 I suffered a road accident when an idiot car driver with all his car windows frozen up not seeing me hit me head on whilst I was riding my Norton Atlas 750cc motorcycle; I walked into the ambulance with a shattered left knee cap and fractured right ankle having been thrown over the car to bounce off a garden wall ending up in the gutter; I thought it smarted a bit?

The picture below is one of my legs taken a few months ago showing just another thing that attacks me this is dermatitis and I'm riddled with it; keeping busy is best then I don't moan as much.

If I'm careful I usually feel pretty good and what I lack in physical strength I easily make up for with my skills; I can move big objects around with levers and winches etc; big jobs I break down into smaller jobs so I do get through a great deal of work every year. having my lovely wife Bron by my side gives me something to look forward to each day so all in all what a truly wonderful life I enjoy.


Out of curiosity is using a fork easier than using a spade to dig over compacted soil; this might sound like a silly question but I don't own a garden fork but having made the heavy fork I used for aerating the lawn it just got me thinking; I was looking at garden forks in a garden centre yesterday wondering if one would be useful; what would be best; flat or square tines; sorry if this has been asked previously but my head is buzzing looking for information. I don't mind spending money buying kit and I'll be spending money on lots of materials to better our gardens.


Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Robert Cummings]

Hi,


Thanks zigs; yes much better to know the bad news up front than waste lots of time and effort; I'll happily accept your advice.


I couldn't agree with you more alps regarding how dangerous the tree felling was; there are many videos on YouTube showing tree felling gone wrong and I must say watching the videos I'm not at all surprised. I chose a dead calm day which is difficult here on the valley side; I put the ladder up as high as I could and attached a strong rope which I knew to be longer than the tree height then ran the rope to the top of the garden. I had hoped the sheer weight of this big tree would bring it down between the big willow and conifer but I should have know better with my luck; a hung up tree is very bad news indeed especially in limited space but I have a strong survival instinct and am aware of problems regarding safety; I worked under the big hung up tree cutting through the willow branch but I did so putting the bulk of the willow between me and the tree being felled so although the situation could have been highly dangerous I felt quite safe; as I heard the sound of the willow branch yielding I ran up the garden border but with the willow tree protecting me; to cut such a branch which is supporting the weight of a full tree whilst working directly beneath without suitable support would mean a very short lifespan; I was trained down a deep coal mine how to survive but I wouldn't recommend others to do as I do. Terry our neighbour hadn't seen as much excitement for years.


Many thanks Robert for your most informative and interesting reply. I actually bought the book on lawn care you mention years ago and did at the time have a go at tending our lawn but unfortunately I simply couldn't spend time in the gardens due to more pressing jobs needing doing so I'll put my hand up and admit I'm solely responsible for the poor quality of our lawn as it is. Drainage isn't a problem because of the steep slope but compaction certainly is and its very compacted indeed to the point I can't get a small spade in without a great deal of effort; at one point I considered buying an Howard cultivator but given the steepness of the garden; poor access for machinery and the many tree roots it was simply a non starter. I've just erected a fence and sinking the post holes was plain hard graft; I bought a long chisel for my big SDS drill; pity I can't dynamite the lot to break it up. I know I'm not alone in this and like others the only solution is going to be hard work and lots of time but now I've got the time and I'm not afraid of hard work. I will indeed browse your previous posts in depth as I'm now keen to learn about all things gardening; I have friends who have allotments and a farmer friend so I'm pestering all these with my basic questions; this is how I discovered about couch grass; being a novice I thought grass was grass although I knew there were lots of types of grass but I didn't know about couch grass. Our soil is very poor indeed as shown by the toadstools which appear and of course the massive amount of moss. When I did have a go at our lawn all those years ago having read the read the book; I set about aerating the soil and made my own tool in the form of a heavy fork as shown below; the weight of this fork was useful in penetrating the soil but I didn't have time to start top dressing etc; I did however apply lawn feed and weed but as I say this was years ago and now the grass is suffering; time it received some TLC?


I think perhaps patience is going to be the best way to treat our garden; I do very much appreciate both yours Robert and zig's advice and its pointless me asking for advice if I don't accept it so next springtime is lawn time; I can busy myself on the border where I've ordered a number of shrubs to plant and look for other jobs I can do in the garden like using the cold frame over winter.


I don't want to be a pest asking lots of questions where I can obtain answers by browsing the web and this forum but at the moment it's knowing where best to start. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm built like a stick insect being only just over ten stones in weight and a lanky six feet tall; I have a number of health problems being born with them starting with asthma which I grew out of but over the years I've been in and out of hospital; last year I was rushed into hospital as an emergency being doubled over in agony crying like a child spending three days hooked up to NASA with lots of tubes sticking out of me; I have to be very careful what I eat due to dairy intolerance and I've suffered major surgery for Crohn's disease in 1982. In 1970 I suffered a road accident when an idiot car driver with all his car windows frozen up not seeing me hit me head on whilst I was riding my Norton Atlas 750cc motorcycle; I walked into the ambulance with a shattered left knee cap and fractured right ankle having been thrown over the car to bounce off a garden wall ending up in the gutter; I thought it smarted a bit?

The picture below is one of my legs taken a few months ago showing just another thing that attacks me this is dermatitis and I'm riddled with it; keeping busy is best then I don't moan as much.


View attachment 27611


If I'm careful I usually feel pretty good and what I lack in physical strength I easily make up for with my skills; I can move big objects around with levers and winches etc; big jobs I break down into smaller jobs so I do get through a great deal of work every year. having my lovely wife Bron by my side gives me something to look forward to each day so all in all what a truly wonderful life I enjoy.


Out of curiosity is using a fork easier than using a spade to dig over compacted soil; this might sound like a silly question but I don't own a garden fork but having made the heavy fork I used for aerating the lawn it just got me thinking; I was looking at garden forks in a garden centre yesterday wondering if one would be useful; what would be best; flat or square tines; sorry if this has been asked previously but my head is buzzing looking for information. I don't mind spending money buying kit and I'll be spending money on lots of materials to better our gardens.


Kind regards, Colin.




View attachment 27610

You can ask as many questions as you like Colin know one is counting, we all do our best to help if we can. Here are a few answers to your questions, please bare in mind some answers are based on experience and some on opinion and a mixture of both in my case, Regarding your lawns there are a number of jobs you should do in the Autumn, here goes...fork or hollow tine over the lawn to aerate and reduce compaction Autumn is the ideal time and is when professional groundsmen do this job.Once you have forked or hollow tined brush course grit, Horticultural sand or a course top dressing into the holes, it takes a while but will really improve your lawns. If you have any probs getting hold of anything go to website called pitchcare.co.uk or it may be .com they have everything you need and knowledgeable customer services on the end of the phone. Regarding fork or spade for digging clay, I use a fork with a D handle prefer round prongs but square I find better for digging root crops, in my opinion use what you feel comfortable with the garden police will not chastise you. I like your home made spiker that's a great bit of kit. Incidentally you can buy any tools from pitchcare they do great stuff we professionals use them and I never have any probs. Also bulb planting season for another month or so another website parkers Dutch bulbs. I think I answered most questions, if not just ask best wishes

 

[Colin]

Hi,

Many thanks once again Robert for your comprehensive and highly informative reply. WOW; I've got something right already; I've got the home made spiker and yes I'll definitely go around with this which is sure to give me a major workout. I'm browsing the web and asking friends for gardening information and I'll be more than happy to ask any questions here on the forum in fact perhaps it would be better to ask on the forum then others can gain useful knowledge; being an engineer I'm used to researching and it comes natural to me; I've done lots of unusual projects over the years and even on the forums I joined I've ended up supplying the detailed information; I'm a member of the biggest engineering forum on the planet but not one member had stripped and rebuilt an Hydrovane compressor let alone make a brand new "Off-loader" valve for one. I even made from scratch a potentiometer this being a bespoke item for a very very expensive vintage car; the car owner had obtained a fuel gauge but this wasn't the correct one and the fuel tank sender unit was faulty; he needed a potentiometer giving only 50 Ohms on full scale deflection; just another unusual project I enjoyed.

I like this forum a great deal not only for its knowledgeable members who are so helpful but for the friendly feel of the forum and I feel comfortable. I've always been the one in meetings to ask questions others feared to ask.

I intended to do away completely with the grassed area but with members encouragement and advice I think I'll hang on to some of it because if I plant lots of shrubs and flowers I might exchange one set of problems for another set of problems; I can though plant evergreen ground cover under the big trees.

I wasn't aware forks could be bought with round prongs; I was looking at a nice Spear & Jackson fork costing only about £18 new at our local garden centre; I'm sure it too had a "D" handle. I'll enjoy browsing Pitchcare and thanks for the link. I've already got shrubs on order from Parker's and a few days ago bought a 3kg sack of daffodils for only £2.49 from our local Home Bargains; these are already planted; Parker's are supplying Narcissus bulbs free of charge with my order so these will be planted when they arrive. I'll also apply a top dressing once I've spiked the grass.

Thanks Robert for your good wishes; I've been interested in gardening but never had the time to spare but I feel I'm now becoming obsessed with gardening; Bron too is visiting garden centers with me showing lots of interest.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Robert Cummings]

Good for you Colin, nothing wrong with healthy obsessions like gardening, keep up with the enthusiasm

 

[Colin]

Hi,

Thanks for your continuing encouragement Robert. Sometimes the smallest things give most pleasure and they are usually the ones costing least monetary wise. About three weeks ago I bought four french lavender these being potted at £2 each from our local Morrison's. I immediately planted them but wanting to learn about gardening I then went online researching lavender; what good timing; I pruned down to half size as advised and this morning its just given me a wonderful buzz as I looked out of our kitchen window to see new growth appearing.

When I start a new hobby it does quickly turn into an obsession as I start to learn and do my researching. Over the last few weeks I've already gathered quite a bit of information both online and now from all you helpful forum members.

About four years ago I bought a cheap shredder from Screwfix and attacked our laurels; before doing so I checked and found every part of our laurels are poisonous and needed treating with a lot of care. I spent well over a week shredding and didn't suffer any ill effects but I've been using the shredded laurel as mulch all around our garden at about 3" depth; there was a lot of it. I was thinking this morning and wonder if I did right in using shredded laurel as mulch; am I introducing harmful toxins into the soil and what effect would this have on worms?

"A woman employed a contract gardener to remove a tree. He used a chipper to deal with the smaller branches. She asked him to also prune a run of cherry laurel and he said he would but he wouldn’t chip it having, on a previous occasion, almost passed out from the cyanide fumes coming off the chipper."

Above is just one example and I've run lots of car loads of laurel to the tip without the car windows being open. Yesterday I pulled up and dug up lots more laurel and I intended to shred it but now being so uncertain I think I would be more wise disposing of it and concentrate on better mulching material such as bark or even horse manure? We have a great number of laurels here and I've been reducing these from 30' tall down to 3' tall apart from the boundary where they are still being used as a screen but I've topped these at around 8' tall. These laurels are mature and are more like trees given the thickness of their trunks and branches; I've given a great deal of laurel logs away for wood-burning. I've climbed many of these laurels with log-saw over my shoulder and had my face brush against the leaves fortunately without ill effects.

Another concern is our big oak trees; every year we have masses of leaves and acorns; at the moment our patio is an hard hat area with due to falling acorns. Oak is full of tannin; I've known about this for many years because I make furniture and if oak furniture is placed inside a tent and saucers of .880 Ammonia are placed inside the tent then this imparts a beautiful brown to the furniture; a sample stick of oak is also placed in the tent and this is used to determine the depth of colour; this is called "fuming" and works with other timber with a tannin content.

Whatever I do I like to research and I'll question anything that has been done a certain way for over 100 years; I'm not clever or smart and certainly not the sharpest tool in the kit but I make up for this by determination and being downright stubborn.

I'm about to attack more laurels but I thought I'd share a few of my thoughts after all I have a great deal to learn and by browsing the web and with members very useful suggestions and excellent advice I do hope to get more and more into gardening.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Robert Cummings]

Regarding the comment about the contract gardener refusing to chip cherry laurel because of Cyanide poisoning in over 35 years I've never come across this and I've chipped as much cherry laurel as any professional, I would suggest he had a problem with his chipper more than laurel giving off cyanide, sorry I think the contractor was talking rubbish, I see no problem shredding and using laurel as a mulch.

 

[Robert Cummings]

Also have shredded Oak prunings small amounts mixed in don't seem to have any probs.The whole point about making compost is a good mixture of garden waste, the more variety of prunings and other vegetation you can add the better the quality in my opinion.