London plane seeding pattern / rhythm?

[cpp gardener]

That's OK, we all have to learn somehow. You have great teachers here.

 

[Sheal]

You don't seem to be having much luck with the trees Low Altitude, but keep looking your luck will change eventually.

 

[Low Altitude]

You don't seem to be having much luck with the trees Low Altitude, but keep looking your luck will change eventually.

Spring is coming!

There's a particular elm in the park that, two springs ago, showered so many seeds that it looked almost like snow or frost: the seeds are like little 'fried eggs' maybe a centimeter across, kernel in the center and then a flat circular skirt that has presumably evolved to be caught by the wind and improve dissemination. I scooped up a few of them and they were super growers. However the treelets that resulted have been demanding indoors in a pot: they need to be kept extremely moist, it seems, and need sunlight, but have a narrow range of acceptable sunlight, not too much etc. (presumably in nature, they tend grow in the shade of the parent tree.

So we've had a few misadventures. So I wished I had more seeds. So last year i was on the lookout in the spring for the same dense seed drop. But nothing came. Not a one. Fascinating. I did a quick Google and it may be that elms seed more prolifically when it's been either unusually dry or unusually wet. I wonder what this spring will bring.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

All or nothing seems to be a fairly common tree tactic, I have seen it with acorns and beech mast. I get hornbeam, oak and ash self seeding in my garden. Every so often I take one with me and drop it in a suitable place when we go out walking.

 

[Low Altitude]

Interesting. And good for you doing the 'Johnny Appleseed.'

The garden in which I grew up had three mature elms. Lovely, until Dutch Elm Disease came and killed them all. So the chance to try my silly haphazard bonsai on elms has a special feeling.

I will try not to be too disappointed if the ones here don't oblige with seeds this year. The time will come again...

 

[Oliver Buckle]

There was a drive way into a park alongside our house that was lined with elms when I was a child. I climbed them, and the main thing I remember was the smell of them and dark pools in the crevices.

 

[Nasir]

I live in an urban area in hardiness band/zone 7b, where the London plane Platanus acerifolia is common. Because I'm an idiot, I thought it might be fun to try growing a couple from seed. I've had some success in previous years growing thornless honeylocust Gleditsia triacanthos and elm Ulmus americana from the seeds that litter the sidewalks hereabouts at the right time of year – hey, they'd only wash down the drains.

So a bit of research indicated that London plane grows seeds that are pretty hard to miss: compound spherical pods that can be over an inch in diameter. Here's a photo from the Wikipedia.

And on the trees:

But: I've been keeping my eyes open for close to two years now, two falls/autumns and two springs, and I've barely seen seed pods on the trees and none at all cast and lying around. So now I'm wondering: might they seed not annually, but every few years, not necessarily a discrete regular interval? And might the seeding event be 'triggered' not just by elapsed time since the last seeding, but by conducive combinations of environmental factors – complete guesswork on my part, but something like maybe there needing to be protracted cold over winter, followed by a warm spring. Or a cool spring. Maybe it likes it wetter or dryer for certain (extended?) periods?

Does anyone even know whether they are 'supposed' to seed in the spring or fall? Some other time?

Any ideas, anyone?

It sounds like you have found an interesting project in growing London plane trees from seed! While it's true that the compound spherical pods can be quite large, it's important to note that the germination rate of London plane seeds can be somewhat low, so it's a good idea to collect as many as possible to increase your chances of success.

Once you have collected the seeds, you will need to prepare them for germination. Start by placing the seeds in a bowl of warm water and allowing them to soak for 24-48 hours. This will help to soften the seed coat and improve germination rates.

After soaking, you can plant the seeds in individual pots filled with a well-draining soil mix. Plant the seeds about 1-2 inches deep and keep the soil consistently moist, but not waterlogged. Place the pots in a warm, bright location, such as a sunny windowsill or under grow lights, and keep the soil temperature around 70-75°F (21-24°C).

It's important to be patient when growing London plane trees from seed, as they can take several weeks or even months to germinate. Once the seedlings have sprouted, you can transplant them into larger pots or directly into the garden. Be sure to give them plenty of space to grow, as London plane trees can get quite large.

Good luck with your project, and have fun watching your London plane trees grow!

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[Low Altitude]

That is really interesting. I must admit, hanging my head in shame, that I had identified it as London Plane by using one of those online 'identify your tree' sites.

Tell you what: when i can, I'll go and take some thought-out pics of the parent tree, trunk and flaking bark and such with tape measure for scale, and post them here so everyone can take a good look at the 'original'.

Watch this space...

Spring has come, yay, and this time I have reliable photos of leaves:

..and here are a couple on front of the tree's trunk. It looks as though the right side in the picture gets morning sun, but the left side witb the flaking / exfoliation is shaded from afternoon sun.

What do we think now? What might it be?

 

[cpp gardener]

London Plane

 

[Sheal]

Yes, London Plane.

 

[Low Altitude]

Yes, London Plane.

CPP, Sheal,

Yay! You can guess how releived i am to hear it. So now, apparently I will be looking for 'fruit' seed pods ('balls') that look like this as they are growing...:

Then, the consensus seems to be, they brown in the fall to look more like this...:

And indeed, I've seen such, littering the ground around 'my' tree, but only dead, empty husks. In an admirable page, Stanford U explains why I only see them empty like that, when it's too late:

By the time the seed balls litter the street, the light-weight seeds have already been forced out into the air currents by a release mechanism depending on the drying out of the packing, which consists of fine hollow straws.

Aha! So that problem persists: there are no branches on 'my' tree anywhere near low enough for me to pluck off. So, come the fall, I'm going to be looking for the individual seeds...:


... which will not be simple: barely a centimetre long and not easy to see on the ground. Never mind. A challenge!

Meanwhile, the more helpful elms, spring seeders, have been carpeting the ground with their seeds. I've been scooping them up by the handful and have planted a few. Will post pics if and when they start to come up...

 

[Sheal]

You have a lot of patience Low Altitude and hopefully good eyesight to detect the seeds.

 

[Low Altitude]

You'r e too kind, Sheal. Your advice last year – try the cuttings in water – worked, where cuttings in soil hadn't. Then, per my post in December, above, I killed the little things with over-potent fertilizer. Idiot me. If i get a second chance this year, I won't make that mistake again.

In the coming weeks and months, I'll be looking for offsets and juveniles (that the park would only cull); but failing that, this year at least I'll know what the seeds I'm looking for look like, and when to look for 'em...

 

[cpp gardener]

Actually what you've posted are 2 different trees. The first and third are Liquidambar fruits and the second is London Plane. The Planetree fruits have seeds that are essentially on the outside, while the Liquidambar has seeds on the inside. The leaves are different as well. The Planetree has dull and somewhat fuzzy, while the Liquidambar has smooth shiny leaves.

 

[Sheal]

You'r e too kind, Sheal. Your advice last year – try the cuttings in water – worked, where cuttings in soil hadn't. Then, per my post in December, above, I killed the little things with over-potent fertilizer. Idiot me. If i get a second chance this year, I won't make that mistake again.

In the coming weeks and months, I'll be looking for offsets and juveniles (that the park would only cull); but failing that, this year at least I'll know what the seeds I'm looking for look like, and when to look for 'em...

Thank you Low Altitude. I prefer growing to gardening and have learnt a little along the way through trial and error. I will try most things in water first - in fact I tend to have more success with that than soil.

Good luck and avoid the fertiliser.