Introducing myself and our backyard project!

[SydneyGee]

Hello! I just joined the forum today to better enrich my knowledge of gardening. For a little background we live in Southern California, zone 10 and it never really freezes or gets below 40 in the winter. The city I live in has hot summers (it has been over 100 consistently) and very little rain. This actually makes growing "summer" vegetables possible year round, but difficult to grow "winter" crops! We are in the process of renovating the entire backyard (and we are THRILLED) from dead lawn to garden boxes and more fruit trees.

This summer was tough for us, many of the vegetables did not produce fruit, became yellow and wilted, or produced sour, bitter and otherwise inedible crops. Many in our area faced this problem due to the very harsh summer sun and inconsistent temperatures (90°,60°, 50°, 90°, 100° etc....). We planted corn, tomatoes, cucumbers, watermelon, sugar snap peas, snow peas, yellow beans, bambino (mini round) carrots, bell peppers, several chili species, and zucchini a little later in the summer. Out of all of these only the chilies produced consistent, "perfect fruits" and never complained. About half our crop was thrown away! ):

This past week we have built a garden box to supplement our winter garden. We plan on adding more throughout the winter. Lined up to go in our 12"x8'x4' box is leeks and bok choy. In a smaller box we will have sugar pumpkins, and yet another box carrots of many varieties. What other winter crop do you suggest? I wanted to also try Russian kale, butter lettuce, and artichokes.

Thank you in advance for your replies, and I look forward to learning with you!

(the photo is the succulent side of the yard, the big garden box, a smaller area for the pumpkin, and the larger plots for the fall crop). We have everything sort of spread out, but all together it makes sense when you see it, haha.

 

[Beverly]

A warm welcome to you @SydneyGee. Your garden looks lovely, so nicely laid out and tidy and i really like your bamboo dividers. I am sorry to hear about your crops though. I grow edibles for pollinators only but i have parsley, but it is a host plant for Black Swallowtail caterpillars, so if i need parsley i have to go to the market . Mulch of about 4 inches will help protect the crops from severe sun. Also you might want to consider some kind of overhead sun screening. I have a sun screen material over the patio area of the garden (for people and seedlings), but for the plants i like to use other plants. At present i have two very tall areca palms strategically located that provide filtered sun to some of the plants. It is amazing how much territory they protect. The chilies won't need any shade though, as you say, but other plants will appreciate it. I look forward to hearing about and seeing your garden progress

 

[Becky]

Hello and welcome to the forum

 

[zigs]

Welcome to the forums

 

[Corzhens]

This reminds me of our school project during grade school where I won the highest grade by submitting the best garden box adjudged by the teachers. It was made of China wood which is soft and cheap but the design was cute and it has brown and whitish brown color. I don't exactly remember the vegetable we had planted in that winning garden box but I am guessing that it is either onion or garlic because according to our teacher, those vegetables we find in the kitchen are the easiest to grow.

 

[SydneyGee]

Thank you all for your kind responses!

@Beverly I have wondered if mulch is OK for a little to be mixed back into the soil when I am turning it in between crops? Because I was thinking I would just use thick black plastic (like how they do in agriculture farms) with holes for the plant. That way it is easy to remove when switching crops in an out. Other problem with mulch is my low plants like carrots and leeks that grow into bushes and might have a hard time with thick heavy mulch. Sun shades are such an eyesore unfortunately, I wish we had larger trees to protect (we are working on it, just need to wait another 5 years for the limes lol).

@Corzhens We used white Douglass fir, its the softest of the hardwoods but will easily last us over 7 years in dry, dry California, haha!

 

[Beverly]

Thick mulch will save your plants. The mulch doesn't have to be heavy, dry leaves are not heavy and will eventually work themselves back into the soil. It will also cut down on the water your plants need. I use coco fiber because it is plentiful and inexpensive here (coco palms everywhere) which is very light. I wouldn't use black plastic in my garden and don't know how much it will protect the roots of your plants so they survive the heat, but if it works for you and you like it, then it might be a good garden experiment.

 

[Pat]

Welcome to the group.

 

[MaryMary]

Welcome to the forum!!

You can also scatter bales of straw, a couple inches thick. It would make a nice mulch, would eventually break down and enrich the soil, and shouldn't be too hard to move out of the way. I wouldn't use black plastic in my garden, either. I think that since black absorbs heat, and you have enough heat already...

 

[Beth_B]

Welcome!
I have no experience gardening in your climate, but I too agree that mulch is a much better option than black plastic and it will absolutely not impede plants. I use straw mulch for the veggies, about 6" (by the end of summer it's broken down quite a bit) and I had plenty of carrots and onions this year.

Also if your soil is sandy or poor, that could have been partly to blame for your previous results? My soil here is excellent but besides the straw breaking down, I dig in some aged compost when I'm planting in spring. For perennials I top dress the beds in fall so the compost can "marinate" over winter. (I'm not sure that would apply in your climate though!)

Looking forward to progress reports!

 

[SydneyGee]

@MaryMary Straw is quite expensive down here, but there are plenty of pine needles and leaves we can collect. Now that I think about it, I agree plastic may not be the best idea.... some of the farms down here use it to mound up the plants and it seemed to work for them. But for our garden maybe leaves would be fine on a small scale.

@Beth_B Our soil is literally different in each part of the backyard. One area is super sandy, poor soil, and lots of rocks, one part is clay, and some is very very fertile soil but no weeds grow O: We have added metric butt-tons of local compost and garden soil, there is a water processing plant that gives it away for free, so we just show up and shovel away! It is then mixed into the existing soil and fertilized with coffee grinds, tea, and ground up remains of our bean and pea plants. Hopefully the soil is not the problem....

In all honesty looking at the garden two things stand out: over watering and too hot during this past summer. We live with my in-laws and they are....heavy handed with the watering. We have tried telling them not to water, leaving signs, and to no avail. Unfortunately there is little communication on who watered, so half the time the plants will get water 2-3 times a day.... We have tried to be more vigilant and test the soil before watering, and hopefully with the rains coming soon it might sink in to them so stop drowning everything!

One last side note, I partially also blame the heat for weakening the plants, but we had a terrible blight on our tomatoes that eventually killed them despite organic remedies. Aphids infested every plant besides the chilies, and horn worms devoured every leaf in one night on one of the peppers ;-;

 

[MaryMary]

Straw is quite expensive down here, but there are plenty of pine needles and leaves we can collect.

Oh, I live in farm country, straw is quite inexpensive here. In that case, I'd go heavier on the leaves than pine needles. I don't remember exactly what I read, but I remember there's a reason not to use too many pine needles...not having them available, I didn't put that in long-term memory. All I have in my head is a cautionary warning.

If you can chop the leaves with a mower, that would help them to break down. Another thing you could do is to put a couple layers of newspaper under the leaves. (Not the glossies, of course!) But that would help in weed prevention... and might convince the in-laws to go for longer, less frequent watering. And if it didn't, at least the water would have to saturate the newspaper before it got down to drown your poor plants!!

Oh, how I wish I had access to metric butt-tons of compost!!

 

[SydneyGee]

Interesting, we read pine needles are good for sun protection like anything else O: If hay really is the perfect mulch, I could make a trip to our family farm sometime and see if they have any extra.

That is a great idea, no mower only a weed wacker. which might work?

It is really great, honestly. The only thing is it is slightly oily, as it comes mostly from tree bark (there are lots of pine and sap-y trees down here), but hey, can't complain! xD

 

[Chuck]

In the Calif. heat plastic will make the soil so hot it will kill your plants, guaranteed. That's why plastic is used to solarize areas. It kills everything. Purchase a good hardwood mulch and a lot of compost. Incorporate the compost and cover with the mulch. What is your soil Ph?

 

[MaryMary]

Interesting, we read pine needles are good for sun protection like anything else

Well, you made me have to go learn something. For me, that means I've been binge-researching. For you, that means I have to tell you what I've learned!! (Please be patient.)

Acidifying the soil is why I had the mental warning, but it appears it's mostly just a myth! (The gardening world seems to be at odds on the subject.) You'll have to decide for yourself.

From Washington State University, Spokane County Extension, http://extension.wsu.edu/spokane/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2015/10/C075-Guide-to-Mulches-15.pdf "Guide to Mulches," I got this: "3 to 4 inches or more of pine needles can be used in shrub and flowerbeds. Shredded pine needles are easier to handle than the whole needles in flower beds and work well in paths. Whole pine needles are light and airy and can be used as winter mulches in rose and perennial beds. Needles take decades to decompose and because of this, they do not acidify the soil as was once thought." ((They don't say anything about using it for veggies. They had this to say about newspaper and/or cardboard: )) "Sheets of cardboard or 6 to 7 layers of newspaper can be used to mulch vegetable beds or paths. Do not use glossy paper or color prints. Once dry, newspaper and cardboard are hard to moisten and will impede water penetration into the soil. If dry, they may blow about in the wind. Unattractive unless covered by another mulch such as bark."


From the University of Georgia Cooperative Extension, http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.cfm?number=C984 "Mulching Vegetables; Choosing the right mulch" I got this: "Pine needles have an aesthetic appeal and are not prone to forming a soggy mat, as are leaves. They are especially good for acid-loving plants."

From a site called Better Vegetable Gardening, http://www.bettervegetablegardening.com/pine-straw-mulch.html I got : "Raking up pine needles in the fall and storing for future use as a mulch can help to provide good mulch material all year round."

Which kind of makes me think it needs to sit a while. They also say, "In the garden pine straw is both attractive and useful. While there are better mulches for weed suppression, pine needles are excellent to insulate against the extremes of heat and cold."

Also from Better Vegetable Gardening, http://www.bettervegetablegardening.com/paper-mulch.html
I found this, "In the list of mulch materials for in and around your vegetable garden, paper and cardboard rank pretty close to the top of the list." It tells the how and why to use newspaper and/or cardboard. It makes an excellent weed barrier, and promotes worm activity. However, it doesn't say anything about protection from the heat.

At this site, http://homeguides.sfgate.com/pine-straw-bad-garden-103932.html I found this: "Pine straw might not be bad for gardens, but pine needles do contain acidic tannins that can have some effect initially. When used around flower beds, freshly harvested pine needles contain more tannins than aged pine needles. Expect temporary acidic increase until the tannins have leached out after a few weeks" (( Which may be why the other site seems to say they need to be aged. They also say, )) "While pine needles don't add nutrients to soil, they do increase soil porosity so oxygen can better reach the roots. The fluffy material does not become compacted or form a crust on the surface like other organic mulches, making it easy for water to penetrate the mulch and reach plant roots."

That is a great idea, no mower only a weed wacker. which might work?

Unless you put the leaves in a big garbage can and just whacked around inside of it, I can't see how it wouldn't just fling leaves around rather than chopping them.

Just my opinion, but after everything I've read... if you don't think you can keep the in-laws from "helping" with the watering, I think I'd put two layers of newspaper under a 50/50 mix of pine needles and leaves. Partly because the one site said pine needles won't block weeds as well. Partly because it might keep some of the acidic tannins from going straight to the soil. Partly because I don't like that leaves are "prone to forming a soggy mat." But also because they will help to absorb excess moisture!

Hope that helps , sorry it's so long , and... keep us "posted!"

(I'm curious as to what you decide!!)