Sugar, moleasses, simple sugars to improve soil life.

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Yes, that cold snap got to 8 deg F here...and very little damage to onions, less than 10%. No molasses applied to them.
Then this is proof that large sugar concentrations in soil are in fact detrimental to some plants, both in low and high soil temps. I wonder what the optimum amount is for the growth of microbial life.
 
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Lookout here comes me thinking again!

This says carbohydrates constitutes about 10% of soil organic matter.
This says carbohydrates carbs are a significant component of the organic matter of all soils, commonly accounting for 5-20% of soil organic matter.

So does it matter how much sugar you can put into the soil vs how much organic matter there is in the soil?

A 1'x1'x6" deep square foot of soil is 0.5 cubic feet of soil and should weigh about 40 lbs or 18,144 grams.

If the average soil contains 5% organic matter and 10% of that is carbohydrates, that is about 90 grams of carbohydrates per square foot of soil 6 inches deep. 18,144 x 0.05 x 0.10 = 90.72 g.

Still not sure what the optimum amount for microbial growth but at least the following gives some ideal about how much of these would be in the soil if you are comparing carbohydrate content.

Granulated sugar is 100% carbs.
90 g of carbohydrates is 90 g of granulated white sugar or about 7.5 tablespoons per square foot of dirt.

Molasses is 92% carbs.
90 g of carbohydrates is 98 g of molasses or about 5.6 tablespoons per square foot of dirt.
 
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Lookout here comes me thinking again!

This says carbohydrates constitutes about 10% of soil organic matter.
This says carbohydrates carbs are a significant component of the organic matter of all soils, commonly accounting for 5-20% of soil organic matter.

So does it matter how much sugar you can put into the soil vs how much organic matter there is in the soil?

A 1'x1'x6" deep square foot of soil is 0.5 cubic feet of soil and should weigh about 40 lbs or 18,144 grams.

If the average soil contains 5% organic matter and 10% of that is carbohydrates, that is about 90 grams of carbohydrates per square foot of soil 6 inches deep. 18,144 x 0.05 x 0.10 = 90.72 g.

Still not sure what the optimum amount for microbial growth but at least the following gives some ideal about how much of these would be in the soil if you are comparing carbohydrate content.

Granulated sugar is 100% carbs.
90 g of carbohydrates is 90 g of granulated white sugar or about 7.5 tablespoons per square foot of dirt.

Molasses is 92% carbs.
90 g of carbohydrates is 98 g of molasses or about 5.6 tablespoons per square foot of dirt.
It's very confusing to me. @Meadowlark's onion failure goes against everything I know about what happens with the use of molasses. About one once per gallon of water per week is not a lot of molasses as I use basically the same amount except on a bi-weekly basis when I use 2 onces. All of my plants thrive but then I don't usually have a garden going in the winter either. When I killed the nutsedge (and there was a LOT of it) it took about 4 months. I would apply 1 1/2 CUPS per gallon of water normally every 2 weeks. The area was about 30'x40' and I used over 3 gallons of molasses during the process. When the nutsedge was gone I planted green beans in the area and had a good crop. Maybe, perhaps, onions don't like carbohydrates? The only variable I can think of is the volume of the molasses/water mix poured onto the plants. There is much more to be learned from this.
 
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The reason for the use of molasses/carbohydrates in the garden is to enhance or multiply the numbers of soil microbes that in turn break down organic matter into a form that a plant can uptake. As @YumYum stated, a percentage of carbohydrates/sugars are in organic matter and when organic matter is removed from the soil, the soil is no longer able to maintain plant growth as evidenced by the overuse of synthetic fertilizers and the disappearance of soil microbes. We can see this on a much smaller scale when we brew compost tea. By adding molasses/carbohydrates to compost tea in large quantities causes the tea to go anaerobic. This is caused by the rapid increase in the number of soil microbes, which is caused by the addition of molasses/carbohydrates. When the soil microbes devour all of the available sugars they starve to death, thus causing the foul odor of a compost tea gone anaerobic. I cannot believe that molasses was the cause for the @Meadowlark onion failure. His garden has an abundance of organic matter due to the use of cover crops and the use of such a small amount of molasses per gallon of water seems somewhat incongruous to me.
 

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...the use of such a small amount of molasses per gallon of water seems somewhat incongruous to me.
Agree, it certainly surprised me. There was a very high moisture content in the soil just prior to the big temp drop. Maybe the effect was similar to adding salt to your ice cream maker to lower the freezing point.
 
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Agree, it certainly surprised me. There was a very high moisture content in the soil just prior to the big temp drop. Maybe the effect was similar to adding salt to your ice cream maker to lower the freezing point.
Probably so, as sugar lowers the freezing point of water also. Onions have a high carbohydrate/sugar content naturally but would adding that amount of sugar change the freezing point? I cannot believe it would do so. I am more of the opinion that something else caused the failure although I can't imagine what it could be unless the seedlings were still very small at the time of the 15 degree weather and were possibly larger during the freeze 2 years ago.
 
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Another variable: If you add sugar to the soil, should you add some organic matter to the soil balance it back out, like shredded newspaper or something?

Seems like a compost pile would be the best place to add sugar since it is full of organic matter waiting to be broken down by the microbes. Woudn't sugar help the microbes multiply resulting in a quicker breakdown of the pile?
 
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Another variable: If you add sugar to the soil, should you add some organic matter to the soil balance it back out, like shredded newspaper or something?

Seems like a compost pile would be the best place to add sugar since it is full of organic matter waiting to be broken down by the microbes. Woudn't sugar help the microbes multiply resulting in a quicker breakdown of the pile?
It all depends on how much organic matter is already there and one cannot have too much organic matter in his soil. Sugars do not break down the organic matter, the soil microbes do. And yes, sugars are a feed source for the microbes which helps them to multiply and the more microbes there are the faster organic matter is broken down and therefore there are more nutrients available to plants.
 
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Do you have a recommendation on what temperatures to apply sugar to a compost pile?
 
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Do you have a recommendation on what temperatures to apply sugar to a compost pile?
All I can say is that I start applying molasses when I put my seedlings into the ground and I water my seeds in with molasses water. And I don't put molasses into my compost, I just throw in all of my stale beer and soft drinks. I should add molasses but it costs money and I am too cheap. It is just a guess but I would think cold weather would slow down the growth numbers of microbes just as warmth increases it. It wouldn't hurt anything to add sugars during cold weather but I don't know how helpful it would be either.
 
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@Chuck you say you use 2 oz of molasses per gallon of water every 2 weeks. Is that oz weight or fluid ounces?
 
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@Chuck you say you use 2 oz of molasses per gallon of water every 2 weeks. Is that oz weight or fluid ounces?
fluid oz. I use a little shot glass. I've got a 2 gallon watering can and I put molasses, maybe some liquid fertilizer, maybe some liquid humate, everything liquid I think the plants might need and give each plant about a quart and then water it in. And about once a month I will give each plant a little dry pelleted fertilizer and water it in with molasses. I try to keep everything on a 2 week basis. I probably use too much fertilizer but I have some really nice soil for this part of the country and fertilizer here is fairly inexpensive.
 
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2 fl oz of molasses (92% carbs) per gallon of water.

So that is 70 grams of molasses per gallon of water or
64 grams of carbohydrates per gallon of water. 70 g x 0.92 = 64 g

@Chuck If you could do a simple watering test and figure up about how many square feet that you water with a gallon of water and let us know, that would at least give everyone a baseline to start with per square feet of soil. I think going by square feet or maybe cubic feet would be more consistant.
 
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2 fl oz of molasses (92% carbs) per gallon of water.

So that is 70 grams of molasses per gallon of water or
64 grams of carbohydrates per gallon of water. 70 g x 0.92 = 64 g

@Chuck If you could do a simple watering test and figure up about how many square feet that you water with a gallon of water and let us know, that would at least give everyone a baseline to start with per square feet of soil. I think going by square feet or maybe cubic feet would be more consistant.
I am thinking of inground tomatoes now. I pour randomly about 1 quart around the base out to the drip line per plant. My tomato plants are on average about 3 feet in diameter so this would be about 7 sq ft per quart/plant or 28 sq ft per gallon and then this is well watered in. So, over a season of 4 months this would be about 8 quarts of liquid or 2 oz of molasses per plant. I grow my peppers in fabric containers so I use about 1/2 as much liquid. I do nothing scientific, just eyeball measurements except I do measure how much of anything I put into my watering can. As I said before, molasses does absolutely nothing for the actual plant, it only benefits the soil. So, since no two soils are identical no two formulas will be exactly the same. When I add molasses to my okra, corn, beans etc. I use a hose end sprayer set at 2 oz per gallon and water until water stands. This is probably more liquid than I put on the tomatoes but it seems to work fine. I have been doing this for years and it seems to have a cumulative effect as my garden soil is MUCH MUCH softer and arable than the surrounding soil although I do add leaf mold, compost and dried leaves each year.
 
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I understand the sugars are feeding the microbes (soil) and not the plant. I was planning on using table sugar in my compost pile and running it through my driplines to feed my soil and I guess Im trying to work out some numbers to see what to use.

But after reading this I'm on the fence about the dripline and plants ideal. Maybe that is what killed Medowlarks plants, large amounts. Smaller amounts aren't likely to kill a plant such as in Chucks case. Looks like a double edged sword. I don't see any problem using it in a compost pile to help it break down faster.
 

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