Sugar, moleasses, simple sugars to improve soil life.

[Meadowlark]

What about the soil life? I supposed there is not really an easy way to test that from the average person.

If you know of a way other than visual, I'm certainly willing to try it.

 

[Chuck]

Well, all I can say is that I can push a piece of rebar 2 feet into the ground with both hands and a hernia but then I hit solid rock.

 

[DirtMechanic]

I'm happy to add Epsom salts and tomato tone to the drench...or whatever else but that wasn't part of the original claim...rebar pushed 5 ft deep with one hand through clay soil... Early results say it's not going to happen, but several weeks yet to go.

I wish you luck in your examinations.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Especially when there are 50 BILLION in an average tablespoon of soil.

"Is that the US billion ten to the ninth or the English billion ten to the twelfth?"
"Not sure, I'll just check. One, two, three ..."

Maybe you should have a control patch as well. One with just sugar, one with sugar, epsom salt and fertiliser, one with nothing. At least on a three horse race I could start a book, give odds for penetration increasing 0%, 10%, 50%, 100% or five foot.

 

[Chuck]

"Is that the US billion ten to the ninth or the English billion ten to the twelfth?"
"Not sure, I'll just check. One, two, three ..."

Maybe you should have a control patch as well. One with just sugar, one with sugar, epsom salt and fertiliser, one with nothing. At least on a three horse race I could start a book, give odds for penetration increasing 0%, 10%, 50%, 100% or five foot.

Don't know. I only report the news, not make it. It is what google said but it didn't say who, what or how to count 50 billion.

 

[Meadowlark]

Well, all I can say is that I can push a piece of rebar 2 feet into the ground with both hands and a hernia but then I hit solid rock.

2 ft deep penetration with both hands in garden soil is far different than 5 ft through clay soil with one hand.

Cool Hand Luke once said, "I can eat 50 eggs" and by golly he did, in the movie.

Pushing rebar through 5 ft of clay with only one hand with nothing added to the clay except weekly 1% sugar drenching would be an accomplishment even Cool Hand Luke could be proud of.... but I'm open minded and several weeks to go yet.

It's easy to test it...try pushing rebar with one hand through 5 ft of clay saturated in 1% sugar solution and let me know your results.

 

[Chuck]

2 ft deep penetration with both hands in garden soil is far different than 5 ft through clay soil with one hand.

Cool Hand Luke once said, "I can eat 50 eggs" and by golly he did, in the movie.

Pushing rebar through 5 ft of clay with only one hand with nothing added to the clay except weekly 1% sugar drenching would be an accomplishment even Cool Hand Luke could be proud of.... but I'm open minded and several weeks to go yet.

It's easy to test it...try pushing rebar with one hand through 5 ft of clay saturated in 1% sugar solution and let me know your results.

One thing I know about molasses applications to the soil is that it does soften and make the soil more friable, but 5 feet with one hand? I'll believe it when I see it. And in clay? I await with bated breath.

 

[Meadowlark]

Maybe you should have a control patch as well. One with just sugar, one with sugar, epsom salt and fertiliser, one with nothing. At least on a three horse race I could start a book, give odds for penetration increasing 0%, 10%, 50%, 100% or five foot.

LOL, that's why I included my garden soil as an additional test plot. Adding all these variables sugar, epsom salts, and fertilizer certainly complicates matters.

The original claim was molasses 1% weekly drench, one hand, rebar pushed 5 ft into what was impenetrable clay soil before the weekly drench ...and that's pretty simple to evaluate.

 

[DirtMechanic]

LOL, that's why I included my garden soil as an additional test plot. Adding all these variables sugar, epsom salts, and fertilizer certainly complicates matters.

The original claim was molasses 1% weekly drench, one hand, rebar pushed 5 ft into what was impenetrable clay soil before the weekly drench ...and that's pretty simple to evaluate.

Ok as long as there is food for fungi all you need is moisture.

 

[YumYum]

Any updates on the condition of the soil?

 

[Meadowlark]

Any updates on the condition of the soil?

I have observed a kind of texturing on the surface of the clay soil test plot. Maybe it's the beginnings of loosening it up some? No observable change to the garden soil test plot.

I'm faithfully applying the drench to both areas.

 

[Meadowlark]

...

Anyone want to make a bet...one way or the other...on the outcome?

Using nothing but sugar product in the above amounts. 10ml per l every week for 8 weeks

Seven weeks in on this experiment and nada.... zero increased penetration, nada. Both plots have the same penetration level as when started with the drenches.

This experiment is getting boring for lack of any positive results.

 

[Meadowlark]

This isn't about anything other than the claim made that using a 1% solution of molasses weekly on impenetrable clay soil resulted in being able to push rebar with one hand 5 feet deep into that clay.

After 7 weeks of using it faithfully on a clay test plot and on a test plot of my garden soil, I have seen zero positive results toward that end. Absolutely zero increase in penetration.

I will test production impacts separately by planting onions in that treated garden soil test plot next month as part of a row of non-treated soil. I will measure specifically any production differences between the non-treated and treated areas.

For now, however, the facts on my 2 test plots do not substantiate the penetration claim. as related to my garden soil and my clay.

I encourage anyone to try this simple penetration experiment and report their results.... a picture of a one-handed rebar penetration 5 ft into solid clay would be most welcome.

 

[Meadowlark]

Ok, I'm ready to declare this part of the experiment over. The premise that using only a 1% solution of molasses weekly on impenetrable clay soil resulted in being able to push rebar with one hand 5 feet deep into that clay simply cannot be verified by me.

After 8 weeks of trying, I'm declaring the penetration test is finished.... with ZERO penetration.

My front-end loader (somewhat more powerful that the average one hand ) could not force the rebar through the clay (the rebar would collapse on itself trying) so I conclude that one hand could not do so either, no matter how many weeks of saturation solution was applied.

Next, I will test the production effects on onions of saturating a portion of soil (test plot 2) with the 1% solution for these 8 weeks. Results next spring, if you are interested.

 

[YumYum]

That is kinda good in a way because I don't want my corn to just fall over because the soil is that loose. I do however like the effects of it improving the soils life. What does the soil look like there? That part isn't showing.

 

[Meadowlark]

Ok, I'm ready to declare this part of the experiment over. The premise that using only a 1% solution of molasses weekly on impenetrable clay soil resulted in being able to push rebar with one hand 5 feet deep into that clay simply cannot be verified by me.

...Next, I will test the production effects on onions of saturating a portion of soil (test plot 2) with the 1% solution for these 8 weeks. Results next spring, if you are interested.

We recently had a cold snap taking the temps down to 14 and 15 deg F consecutively. The area saturated with the molasses solution experienced 100% kill rate on the onions. The remainder of the row experienced about 20% kill rate. I might mention that in decades of raising onions through the winters here I have never lost a crop to freezes.

Perhaps its coincidental that the sugar treated plants 100% died. I certainly was surprised.

Anyone else observe any difference between freezing effect on plants treated w/molasses?

Photo of treated area:

Photo of untreated area:

 

[Chuck]

We recently had a cold snap taking the temps down to 14 and 15 deg F consecutively. The area saturated with the molasses solution experienced 100% kill rate on the onions. The remainder of the row experienced about 20% kill rate. I might mention that in decades of raising onions through the winters here I have never lost a crop to freezes.

Perhaps its coincidental that the sugar treated plants 100% died. I certainly was surprised.

Anyone else observe any difference between freezing effect on plants treated w/molasses?

Photo of treated area:

View attachment 93985


Photo of untreated area:

View attachment 93986

Molasses is a known killer of weeds when used in strong proportions. Personally, I have used molasses to kill nutsedge. Reading research articles it appears that molasses has a weed killing protein in it and when molasses is applied in large amounts or concentrations, this provides enough of this protein to kill plants. I found the following link interesting.

Beeting lawns into shape - AURI

Oakdale, Minn. — Greener Pastures, which makes more than a dozen grain-based fertilizers and turf products, has developed natural weed-killers using sugar beet molasses. Nature’s Weed Control, Nature’s PreEmergent and Nature’s Weed & Feed curb most annual and perennial weeds without chemical...

auri.org

 

[Meadowlark]

Yes, I've also used it to kill nutgrass.... but in much stronger concentrations. 1% seems pretty weak but maybe combined with the extreme low temps... who knows.

 

[Chuck]

Yes, I've also used it to kill nutgrass.... but in much stronger concentrations. 1% seems pretty weak but maybe combined with the extreme low temps... who knows.

Two years ago it was colder and for a much longer period of time. What did your onions do then and did you apply any molasses? I also wonder if applying copious amounts of molasses forces the soil microbes to multiply so quickly that they become overpopulated and literally starve themselves out of existence and thus starving the plant as well.
I apply molasses to everything at the rate of 2 oz per gallon about every 2 weeks in the amount of about 1 quart per plant. This is about the rate you were applying to your onions but, this is in the spring/summer and the soil temps are much higher as well. So, this being the case, it seems that reduced soil temps may play some role as well.

 

[Meadowlark]

Yes, that cold snap got to 8 deg F here...and very little damage to onions, less than 10%. No molasses applied to them.