Westland Multi-purpose Compost With John Innes - No good?

[Mr FootOfDavros]

Hi Folks!

Complete garden novice here - In my previous post, I had my strawberry seedlings mixed up with onions!

Anyway, I wanted to ask about compost, specifically the titled compost, and whether anyone had any problems with it?

I started off a few seeds in a propogator with compost I found left over in the house we moved into - I think it was Verve multi purpose.

Anyway, the seeds started off well and grow to the size (2/3 leaves) were I thought I should repot them.

I thinned out the propogator and planted 18 (6 X tomatoes, 6 x lettuce & 6 x beetroot) into 8cm fibre pots and thought I'd done a decent job repotting them.

Anyway, long story short - they pretty much all died within 2/3 days of repotting (one sole lettuce survivor).

The seedlings I left behind in the propogator were fine and continued to grow.

Is this Westland stuff no good? I'm kind of gutted as I actually paid more for it thinking I was buying premium stuff.

I've attached a picture here showing a couple of drying out, finished pots. The top one has the Westland compost, which is a lot greyer and full of much bigger pieces. The other stuff is redder, finer and seems to hold moisture better.

Given the deaths, I tried starting a second propogator, using this Westland stuff as a test. The lettuce, beetroot and tomatoes have all started in it this time but I do have a lot of white fluff around the top of the soil.

I've also noticed this Westland stuff seems to form a harder crust at the top and when I water it, it sits pooled on the top for a bit before going in.

So the question is - Is It bad stuff or have I just been unlucky or doing something fundamentally wrong when repotting?

Thanks for any help / advice you may be able to give...

 

[Tetters]

First of all, how did you handle those seedlings? You must use a widger or something small to loosen the compost at the roots, then be very gentle and lift out the individual seedlings by their leaves, without touching the stems.
Secondly, it's quite clear that whatever compost you used to sow seed into was fine, as you got good germination. This is the stage when the stuff you use doesn't need any nutrition. When you move the seedlings, they need some grit or perlite to loosen up the medium they are planted in, and they also need feed. Whatever compost you use will need a little slow release feed added as well as good drainage.
It is very easy to over water your seedlings, and I think most of us have lost some by this mistake - it's easily done.
Always fill containers up when potting on, and it helps to water from the bottom. Have a water tray ready and sit the new plants in there in their new containers until they show damp on the surface. I will say it again .... drainage is of utmost importance.

You need a dibber and a widger for this job

 

[Mr FootOfDavros]

Thanks for your reply.

Re moving the seedlings - I loosened the cell soil by using a tea spoon around the edges. I was careful not to touch the roots and dropped them down into a deep hole in the pots but then I did just make that hole using my finger. I did lift them by their stems though - although lightly - rather than by the leaves so perhaps it was that.

Very disappointingly I seem to have lost another lettuce this morning. It was one of the survivors I'd left in the propogator but was getting too big so I moved it a couple of days ago. It's the one on the left here next to the sole survivor of the initial transplantations...

When I moved the others, one consideration I had was that it was the weather. They're just on windowsills rather than under lamps / being heated, and the following days were really poor. Yesterday though was excellent here and the plant on the left was looking excellent and healthy last night.

Anyway, the worry now is that I really have to plant on some of the tomatoes. I'm tempted to plant one on into this Westland stuff and use the initial compost I used for the propogator for the others.

Despite my amateurish efforts, I'm not convinced the compost didn't play a part - One thing I forgot to mention in the OP was that the Westland compost also had some strange white stuff in it - kind of chalky powdery stuff that was still pretty lumpy throughout the bag. And there was a little white plastic piece in there! Not sure if this is normal but certainly didn't have anything like that in the other compost.

So there's that, as well as my poor efforts, as well as it's large material pieces and poor water retention. If I repot one plant into this stuff again and it dies, with the others surviving, I think that will give me an answer...

 

[Tetters]

Don't touch the stems!!!! If you do that - even lightly, the seedlings will die.

If you are unsure about the compost, yes try a different one. Fill your containers to the top. Water from a tray beneath.

The white stuff was probably lime which is added unless it's an ericaceous compost.
If there are lumps in the compost, try putting it through a sieve.

I was still able to buy peat from Ireland fairly recently, and am still knocking up my own compost.

Lastly (for now) if at first you don't succeed, try again, don't give up. You will get the hang of it if you persevere!

An alternative way to grow stuff is to sow seed directly, at the right time for your weather conditions, into the ground - very thinly. Then all you need to do is carefully thin a few out if they get a bit too overcrowded.

Invest in a polytunnel for protection up your way maybe

 

[Tetters]

Actually, reading through your post again, I was thinking about the bit of plastic! It is possible that they are getting in household ''green bin'' waste to mash up. Some of the composts these days can be a bit suspect. You never know then what individuals might chuck in those bins

 

[Mr FootOfDavros]

Thanks very much for your further insights. Much appreciated.

I think you're probably correct re the lime. I returned one of the Westland bags I'd gotten yesterday and picked up some Levington instead. Found exactly the same white stuff inside... Funnily enough the Levington compost seems to be pretty much the same composition wise as the Westland stuff was. A lot of big twigs, bark, maybe leaf pieces, compared with the compost which was left here.

It's funny, as a previous flat dweller, I had no insight at all as to the peat situation and it being phased out. As far as I can literally see just looking at the Verve stuff - and some old miracle gro multi purpose - they're like night and day compared with the Westland and Levington compost I've bought in the past couple of weeks. This new peat free stuff is probably 50% large material pieces in the mix.

I repotted three tomato seedlings today - very carefully only holding by the leaves and carefully dislodging from the soil. For an experiment I've put one in each of my composts asides from the Westland. I have one left in my first propogator but it's not quite there yet. When it is, I'll pot it in the Westland so I can see what happens. But even from my initial experience watering them, it basically soaks right through and out the Levington compost.

Anyway, we'll see how they go. Thanks again for your time and advice .

 

[Tetters]

Well those three pots look promising. You will get there if you keep up the effort. You will find as you go along that you have chosen to take on one of the very best pastimes you could have. It has been so rewarding for me for years - I started when I was 5 and was hooked straight away. It's especially important at the present time, as there is a big threat of us all being very short of good food, the way the world is going.
It would be interesting to watch your progress. (old person)

 

[Tetters]

I used to buy Jack's Magic compost for about a fiver a bag when it was peat based, and was always pleased with it. I've no idea what the new peat free job is like, but would hope they keep the quality now as good as it used to be. Worth a thought. I wouldn't even consider anything with ''miracle grow'' on the label.

 

[Mr FootOfDavros]

Thanks - It was old, leftover Miracle gro stuff that the previous owner had left here. I've no doubt the peat free version available now will have the same issues as the Westland stuff. Although, it is a bit strange that I found the Levington bag to be much the same as it did claim to have some peat content.

I think the issue is maybe more the size and quantity of the debris pieces, in these new composts which is going to cause water retention issues and gaps I suppose, which may cause problems for repotted seedling roots.

Anyway, I'll report back at some point to show how these tomato plants develop in the different composts.

Thanks for now.

 

[Mr FootOfDavros]

Hi folks.

I just thought it would be worth giving a little progess update in case anyone with store bought compost issues runs into similar problems as I had.

Here are those three plants three weeks on:-

So, no massive difference between them and the Levington stuff is definitely not performing any worse.

Probably worth pointing out that I initially raised this thread due to my concern with the Westland compost, and although I thought the Levington stuff was quite similar, in terms of larger material pieces in the mix, the bags I picked up do contain peat. Therefore, maybe the lack of peat in the Westland compost combined with larger pieces caused a water retention issue which played some part in my earlier seedlings' demise.

Given this Levington compost does seem to be doing okay though, I may try and get out and get myself a few more bags while I can. I've noticed that Sainsbury's is now stocking this Levington Multi Purpose compost but it must be newer stock as it is peat free. I think we got ours from Home Bargains, which must have older stock still containing peat.