Okra advice

[Arielphf]

I've posted this question on other forums but I'm going to try here in the hopes that someone might be able to help me answer this question.

What does it take to grow good okra in Pennsylvania?

Most people seem to have no problem growing okra. As long as the season is long enough, everyone I've asked online says that okra does fine in their garden what's my problem? Well, the very first year I planted okra, my plants did fine too. They got tall, produced gobs of pods and were generally a great success. Unfortunately, that was 15 years ago and every year since then I've tried but haven't had a single decent crop of okra.

The plants grow great until they get about 2-3' tall, and then start falling apart. Their leaves yellow starting at the margins, curl and brown and fall off and they stop growing in height. I am convinced it's a mineral/micro-nutrient problem because the first year the plants grew great and now plants that grow closest to the undisturbed lawn soil grow the best of all of them, though they are still stunted. It certainly seems like there is something that these plants need that is in very short supply in PA soils - if I could only identify what it is and supplement, I think could grow okra again.

I fertilize with 10-10-10 every year and tried a couple of subsequent fertilizations on these plants once the they got bigger. I supplement the soil with composted hardwood leaves and kitchen waste compost. None of these actions has helped the plants grow like they did the first year. No other plant in my garden seems to have the problems that okra does.

In case you think it's just me having a plant that doesn't like me, I found other gardeners in the same region I am in that had the same response from okra; grows great the first year and then fizzles. I really think it's something that okra needs that the soil here doesn't have, but I am open to suggestion.

My soils are alluvial clays with shale under it. PH is around 6.8 last time I tested it. I ammend with LOTS of organic material, mostly hardwood leaves from the township composting piles but also with straw from my mulch. This year I added cow manure. We'll see how that does. I'm thinking of adding a micronutrient mix, but I'd like to make sure whatever one I get has whatever it is that okra needs.

Thanks for reading and I hope you can help.

Ariel

 

[marlingardener]

It sounds like either Southern blight, or fusarium wilt. In either case, you need to plant the okra where it hasn't been planted before. There are varieties resistant to fusarium wilt. For Southern blight, make sure there is air circulation around the plants and don't crowd them.
Since both of these diseases can be spread by infected seed, it may be you and your neighbors just got a bad batch that introduced the problem.
I don't grow okra since it is so easily purchased here in central Texas (heck, if you leave your car unlocked, you'll find a few bags of okra in the back seat).

 

[Arielphf]

LOL! I would love to find okra in my back seat!

I thought about that and was under the impression that you would see signs of nodules on the root systems if it were fusarium? Is that not the case? All of the plants I uprooted to check showed no signs of nodules. Also, I have planted it in new places around the garden every time, and I keep them about 12" to 18" apart when planting them by seed. This year, about a third of the seeds didn't come up so I ended up with even greater spacing than that, but the only apparent difference I saw in the plants was the ones nearer to the yard turf were healthier than the ones deeper in the garden. Unless the fusarium spreads really easily through the soil? What other plants might be affected by it?

And I should note that my 'turf grass' is old road fill, as barren as can be and is never fertilized. I had to truck in soil just to make a garden (and that was nothing but riverbottom clay, thanks dear) so if it is a mineral, it's something that even crappy soil has. Hmmm... You've got me thinking I should call the Penn State Ag labs to see if they can test both my garden and yard soils to see what is going on. If they will do that.

 

[Chuck]

My okra looked like that one year but it was from way too much water for a long period of time, almost 2 weeks. Okra likes it hot, the hotter the better and it does not like wet feet, at all.

 

[Arielphf]

My okra looked like that one year but it was from way too much water for a long period of time, almost 2 weeks. Okra likes it hot, the hotter the better and it does not like wet feet, at all.

Too much water, that's possible. I don't tend to water them, but they are planted in river bottom clay. As much as I have ammended (and amended and amended...) that soil, it's still clay and holds water really well even though it's sitting on top of the best drained shale on the planet. I've tried adding gypsum, but maybe sand would also help. Thanks! I will try that.

 

[Chuck]

Too much water, that's possible. I don't tend to water them, but they are planted in river bottom clay. As much as I have ammended (and amended and amended...) that soil, it's still clay and holds water really well even though it's sitting on top of the best drained shale on the planet. I've tried adding gypsum, but maybe sand would also help. Thanks! I will try that.

Sand + clay= Brick

 

[Arielphf]

Sand + clay= Brick

LOL! Well, yes, though clay alone is a lot like a brick when it dries out. I add tons of organic material every year but it just seems like every time I till it over the next year the stuff has disappeared! I guess it's being utilized, but it would sure be nice if I could find something that could condition my soil for more than a single year.

 

[Chuck]

LOL! Well, yes, though clay alone is a lot like a brick when it dries out. I add tons of organic material every year but it just seems like every time I till it over the next year the stuff has disappeared! I guess it's being utilized, but it would sure be nice if I could find something that could condition my soil for more than a single year.

I know what you're saying. I have been adding to mine now for 14 years and by looking at it, it seems the same but try this. Get a clear glass quart jar with a lid and fill it half full of your garden soil. Fill it up with water and dissolve the soil and let it settle for an hour or two. You will be able to see the different layers making up your soil and can determine the percentage of organic material you have added. By taking another jar and taking a sample from someplace other than your garden you will be able to see that all your work was not in vain.

Have you ever tried to manually pull up a mature okra plant? If so then you know how deep its root system really is and with clay soils you don't really know how wet it is down there. That's probably why your okra reaches a certain point and then folds up and dies. Something else that may affect your okra is cotton root rot. It can be a big problem here in Texas in our alkaline soils but I don't know about PA.

 

[Arielphf]

I know what you're saying. I have been adding to mine now for 14 years and by looking at it, it seems the same but try this. Get a clear glass quart jar with a lid and fill it half full of your garden soil. Fill it up with water and dissolve the soil and let it settle for an hour or two. You will be able to see the different layers making up your soil and can determine the percentage of organic material you have added. By taking another jar and taking a sample from someplace other than your garden you will be able to see that all your work was not in vain.

Have you ever tried to manually pull up a mature okra plant? If so then you know how deep its root system really is and with clay soils you don't really know how wet it is down there. That's probably why your okra reaches a certain point and then folds up and dies. Something else that may affect your okra is cotton root rot. It can be a big problem here in Texas in our alkaline soils but I don't know about PA.

Actually, I have pulled out some of the mature plants to see if there were any nodules on it that might have been causing a problem. The roots looked perfect, healthy and strong, with no nodules or clumped roots or rot or anything untoward. The soil doesn't even seem wet, for all the clay, because the garden was created by dumping a truckload of clay on top of my roadfill shale. I'd always hoped the water retention of the clays would be offset by the super drainage of the shales - and it does seem to work that way for everything else I plant - but the okra still has these problems.

I have done the bit with the water separations - I've got a set of them (clay, loam and sandy soils) that I use for school programs - even though I've been ammending for only 12 years, maybe I should do it again as you say just to encourage myself. LOL!

 

[headfullofbees]

Gypsum is a great clay-breaker.

 

[Arielphf]

Gypsum is a great clay-breaker.

It is! Though I think I will need a lot more of it than I have already added (10 bags or so) to make a real dent in this garden.

I should mention that my main bed is something like 24' x 50'- I will likely need a truckload of the stuff.