Choking out severely weedy garden and amending this fall for next spring

[John in WI]

Hello,
First post on this forum. I was hoping to find some thoughts on recovering a very weedy garden space. I live about an hour from my mom's house. She was widowed about 2 years ago, and I helped her plant my step-dad's old garden bed. Unfortunately, I'm an hour away and I can only spend about 2 hours a week. She's in her 70's, and I can't have her digging around and doing the heavy lifting.
Anyway, I have a severe weed problem--much of it this horrible crab grass. I dug and dug today and barely touched it. What terrible stuff!

I've never used cardboard/newsprint for mulch, but from some reading they claim it can choke out any plant material underneath.
Has anyone had success doing this? What I was thinking was, just get through the season (weeds and all), and after pulling the plants, try to cover the area in 2 or 3 layers of cardboard, or several layers of news paper and cardboard. Then just let it work it's magic into the fall. Hopefully that would be enough to have the vegetable material dead by spring.

What we were thinking was to lay the cardboard, and the space with several inches of leaves from the number of maples on the property. Let it rot/choke the weeds out, and then in spring till it under and start over.

Anyone have some non-poison methods for killing some really aggressive/nasty weeds like crab grass?

It's actually a nice garden space. It has about an 8" concrete boarder--the foundation of an old garage that long since collapsed. It has not been maintained very well in recent years. (mostly due to the advancing age of my parents). I was hoping this fall to just load up as much organic material as I can find. Leaves, compost (from the municipal recycling place), maybe work out a deal with the neighbor for some manure. Heap it on, let it break down over the winter, and in the spring either till it under, or go with a "lasagna garden". I've read a lot about the options--but honestly have extremely little experience with garden growing. A lot with patio/container veggies, but not with a big space like this.

 

[pepper]

Welcome to the forum! I haven't found much helps, the cardboard is great while it's there covering but all the seeds on and in the soil from the weeds will just make things grow back next year. If you are not there to be able to hoe the weeds as they pop up after the garden is planted the only thing I can think of is using that black mesh landscaping material so the weeds can't grow through.

 

[John in WI]

I thought about the landscape fabric--but that stuff ain't cheap! I read up on solarization, but I can't find information saying that using black plastic sheeting works for killing weeds (I think it's for soil pathogens).

The other thought I had was to spray the weeds with an organic herbicide. 6% vinegar is supposed to work well. I also read that wood ash leachate fries them pretty fast. By spring, the pH effect should be moderated.

Trying to dig them by hand, it's amazing how dense the roots are--fine hairy roots. Even banging them against the concrete, the soil is difficult to get off of them. They are seriously rooted in there.

 

[oneeye]

Hello,
First post on this forum. I was hoping to find some thoughts on recovering a very weedy garden space. I live about an hour from my mom's house. She was widowed about 2 years ago, and I helped her plant my step-dad's old garden bed. Unfortunately, I'm an hour away and I can only spend about 2 hours a week. She's in her 70's, and I can't have her digging around and doing the heavy lifting.
Anyway, I have a severe weed problem--much of it this horrible crab grass. I dug and dug today and barely touched it. What terrible stuff!

I've never used cardboard/newsprint for mulch, but from some reading they claim it can choke out any plant material underneath.
Has anyone had success doing this? What I was thinking was, just get through the season (weeds and all), and after pulling the plants, try to cover the area in 2 or 3 layers of cardboard, or several layers of news paper and cardboard. Then just let it work it's magic into the fall. Hopefully that would be enough to have the vegetable material dead by spring.

What we were thinking was to lay the cardboard, and the space with several inches of leaves from the number of maples on the property. Let it rot/choke the weeds out, and then in spring till it under and start over.

Anyone have some non-poison methods for killing some really aggressive/nasty weeds like crab grass?

It's actually a nice garden space. It has about an 8" concrete boarder--the foundation of an old garage that long since collapsed. It has not been maintained very well in recent years. (mostly due to the advancing age of my parents). I was hoping this fall to just load up as much organic material as I can find. Leaves, compost (from the municipal recycling place), maybe work out a deal with the neighbor for some manure. Heap it on, let it break down over the winter, and in the spring either till it under, or go with a "lasagna garden". I've read a lot about the options--but honestly have extremely little experience with garden growing. A lot with patio/container veggies, but not with a big space like this.

Can you post a photo?

 

[oneeye]

Landscape fabric is a joke because it doesn't work. The problem with it, is wild seed blows on top of the fabric after a few months or a year and sprouts and grows into grass just like it was never there. Don't waste your money on it.

You on the right track by bringing in a lot of organic matter and working it in the garden. If you shred everything with the lawnmower before putting it in the area it will break down much faster. Keep us posted with some photos as you work it friend if you don't mind. Sounds like a super sweet project.

 

[John in WI]

Landscape fabric is a joke because it doesn't work. The problem with it, is wild seed blows on top of the fabric after a few months or a year and sprouts and grows into grass just like it was never there. Don't waste your money on it.

You on the right track by bringing in a lot of organic matter and working it in the garden. If you shred everything with the lawnmower before putting it in the area it will break down much faster. Keep us posted with some photos as you work it friend if you don't mind. Sounds like a super sweet project.

It's a good space, with the remaining concrete stem wall all around it. It just got out of control after my step father passed away, and last second this spring we decided to plant it. It's been one of those thrown together projects from the beginning. It's produce a ton of tomatoes, some big dinosaur gourds, acorn squash, and brussels coming along. It just looks terrible, and this crab grass situation is completely out of control.

I keep my local garden in good shape, but the one in question I can only visit on Sundays for a couple hours. Mom is healthy, but she's 71 with a bum knee. I'm trying to make it so she can do the fun part of gardening (the harvesting and planting), and try to deal with the weeds by choking them out with mulch. but that crab grass seems to be pretty aggressive stuff. Last week I dug a bunch up, and put it on top of the soil to dry out and die. Except I came back a week later, and the roots touching the ground re-rooted, and it started growing again. It was extremely sunny and very warm. She's on a hill, so constant wind. I would have thought the sun would have roasted them very fast, but that stuff just keeps going.
Today, I put all the crab I dug up in a 30 gallon plastic drum (it was from the grocery store) and put the lid on it. I figured a week getting cooked without sun, a lot of moisture, and a lot of heat should do a number on it. If it's still growing, I'm going to add it next time I do charcoal. If all else fails, roasting it in a fire will do it.
It's been a fun learning experience. But neither one of us are really skilled. Trying to learn (reading mostly), but I haven't put a lot into practice yet.

 

[Meadowlark]

...
Today, I put all the crab I dug up in a 30 gallon plastic drum (it was from the grocery store) and put the lid on it. I figured a week getting cooked without sun, a lot of moisture, and a lot of heat should do a number on it. ....

Crab grass is loaded with nitrogen. Most don't realize it can be a valuable soil amendment properly composted. I always compost it when dug in the garden. If you aren't sure about hot composting, remove the seed heads first but hot composting for a few days will kill them successfully. It's actually good stuff composted.

 

[pepper]

Landscape fabric is a joke because it doesn't work. The problem with it, is wild seed blows on top of the fabric after a few months or a year and sprouts and grows into grass just like it was never there. Don't waste your money on it.

You on the right track by bringing in a lot of organic matter and working it in the garden. If you shred everything with the lawnmower before putting it in the area it will break down much faster. Keep us posted with some photos as you work it friend if you don't mind. Sounds like a super sweet project.

Everything other then putting the time and work into physically keeping on-top of weeds in a garden is a joke. But when that's not possible it's an option. There is no real solution otherwise people wouldn't ever have weeds in their garden without work involved getting rid of weeds. Someone who finds a way will become a very, very rich person if it's a method that is affordable and realistic for backyard gardens. There is some high tech available for those who are rich lol. Or, paying people to remove the weeds for you as they pop up in the garden. Lol

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Susan BPM reports good results with paper and cardboard covered in a few inches of compost.

 

[redback]

If that old garage foundation can support a raised garden bed your chances of successfully using the three layers of cardboard improve. If you build the sides of the old garage space up by ten to twelve inches (300mm) using bricks or timbers. (What size is this old garage?) Put down your cardboard barrier. You then use weed free soil to fill to that level. The sun will not get to this crabgrass, and it should die in the first year. I'm Australian and have no idea of what this crab grass is capable of but not much will survive being sunless and a foot below ground with an impenetrable layer between. Be careful around the edges and possibly lay the cardboard so an inch of it is below the new low walls.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

If you build the sides of the old garage space up by ten to twelve inches (300mm) using bricks or timbers

Timber is not quite so good, beds with wooden sides tend to dry out. Done on the ground you do not need so much compost, the cardboard will supress weeds , but roots will penetrate it.

 

[redback]

Actually, I was building up 10 inches (250 mm) so the roots of carrots (for example) will not need to break the barrier. I am aware the cost of the soil buildup is a factor but so is the effort of doing anything else. Maybe his mother can contribute?

 

[Mick Emery]

I don't know if this will help but it works great for me. (I'm in my mid 70s)
I started using raised beds about 13 years ago. I bought commercial made compost by the truckload to fill them up. ($250 per dump truck load. 15 yards)
I buy a truckload every other year to top the beds up.
The first year, we had literally 5 weeds out of 16 beds. It became an event to find one!
Over the years we've encountered more than 5 per year but they very few & are SO easy to pull out. No effort required.
I can literally push my hand into the beds 12".

 

[redback]

I don't know if this will help but it works great for me. (I'm in my mid 70s)
I started using raised beds about 13 years ago. I bought commercial made compost by the truckload to fill them up. ($250 per dump truck load. 15 yards)
I buy a truckload every other year to top the beds up.
The first year, we had literally 5 weeds out of 16 beds. It became an event to find one!
Over the years we've encountered more than 5 per year but they very few & are SO easy to pull out. No effort required.
I can literally push my hand into the beds 12".

Yes, I have a truck load of manure delivered each year for top dressing everything. It is a lot cheaper than the bagged products. Most of the community farms in this city are with raised beds because old factory sites have polluted soil. If necessary, you can put a construction grade plastic barrier under everything, including the walls, and then top with two inches of gravel and leave the vertical brick joints open for drainage. After that you cover the gravel with geofabric and then the ten inches of soil. Lots of options but potentially expensive.

 

[Ernst]

Sorry to read about you and your Mother's loss.

Perhaps this is a time to make a raised bed? Perhaps set it up so she can sit and work?
Then again does she still want the Garden?

As for crab grass man oh man yeah. Rototilling and French Intensive style with black plastic cover seems like a winner for killing it but
French Intensive style can be helpful too.
Basically as I understand it, it can be considered composting in ground.
As an example: I am prepping a clay soil here and working it as deeply as is practicle. I am hoping for deep enough for some award winning carrots.
Now this F.I. isn't my preferred way but I want to get it hot once I finish adding all the organic materials to speed things up so I am going full nuclear with applying prilled carbamide once it's all ready to burn, which is 46% nitrogen. I am aiming at a "burn" to kill kill kill as the song goes in Alice's Restaurant the movie. Kill some weed seed and also process the large amount of organic material.
If I had more time I would let it decay naturally but I want to go straight to a soil builder crop after that and then into the winter with a cold weather cover crop.
So if you want to make it easy the most likely is after going down a foot in tilling, dig out the foot of earth and put in fabric then the two foot tall raised bed filled with organic materials in the style of french intensive is the suggestion I thought to make when i read your thread.
But heck yeah Crab Grass is tough but as the man said it is composable so tilling a foot deep then dig out and place fabric then fill back in with sifted soil and mixed in wth organic materials. Then let the microbe show start. Then after it calms down it's planting time.
Sometime we have to do a lot to get it going so we don't have to do a lot again.
It's all about her. I believe you wish to be kind to your Mom. I can get that.
I super productive garden might be the thing.
It does sound like you will need to give up a weekend and some cash but hey when she is gone , any expense now will only make your emotional pain less by knowing you made her happy.
I lost my Mother at age 96. Everything good I did for her is a comfort and all the things I could have done that I didn't is regret.
So yeah look into F.I. and getting a machine involved plus raise bed.

Best wishes to you both.

Respectfully, Ernst.