How early can I sow squash and beans indoors?

[Susan BBPM]

Assuming I'm able to keep large plants warm indoors for as long as necessary, how early can I reasonably sow squash and beans without them getting too big to handle when planting out?

So, winter squash, summer squash, melons and climbing beans.

 

[Tetters]

I would say about a month before your last frost date Susan. This will be earlier in Kent, but I'm not sure about Ayrshire.

 

[Susan BBPM]

I would say about a month before your last frost date Susan. This will be earlier in Kent, but I'm not sure about Ayrshire.

Last frost date is mid May, but it's usually June before things have warmed up at night. I'll aim for last week of April I think and if the fortnightly forecast is good i can plant out second half of may but if it's chilly I can keep them under cover a bit longer.

 

[Tetters]

Well, once you can get them germinated (they would be best in a warm place for that) if you keep them protected, but in a cool place, away from any heating, and maybe a north facing window sill, to keep them in check, they should be fine.
Actually, to grow melons or squash, it would be better if you lived in a Mediterranean area. We would have problems with those down here in Kent. The growing season isn't long enough. The beans should be fine though.

 

[DirtMechanic]

Melons are fun to grow vertically in a hanging pot. This might suit an indoor start but they want all the sun you can give them. I grew some on a vertical trellis with a flat roof and used queen sized pantyhose to support the fruit. I learned there are better mesh supports out there and bonus the drugstore clerk won't look cross eyed at me.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Melons are fun to grow vertically in a hanging pot. This might suit an indoor start but they want all the sun you can give them. I grew some on a vertical trellis with a flat roof and used queen sized pantyhose to support the fruit. I learned there are better mesh supports out there and bonus the drugstore clerk won't look cross eyed at me.

I'm in Scotland so the melons will need to be inside permanently!! I have seeds for a short season cantaloupe melon that is supposed to do well in cooler climates. I haven't yet decided where in the polytunnel to plant them (big container on the floor, main bed, smaller pots)? What size of pot do they do best in? Or will they prefer the space in the big raised bed?

 

[Susan BBPM]

Well, once you can get them germinated (they would be best in a warm place for that) if you keep them protected, but in a cool place, away from any heating, and maybe a north facing window sill, to keep them in check, they should be fine.
Actually, to grow melons or squash, it would be better if you lived in a Mediterranean area. We would have problems with those down here in Kent. The growing season isn't long enough. The beans should be fine though.

I'm planning on keeping the melon in the polytunnel. It's my first time, but I'm trying these short season cantaloupe from RealSeeds.

"
Minnesota Midget
First seen in 1948, this fantastic variety was bred for short summers - it swaps size for earliness - but without any sacrifice of sweetness or flavour. Compact vines grow about 4' and quickly set several small (cricketball-sized) melons with sweet orange flesh, edible right to the rind."

We have solar for the house (for the first year) and we've already got more energy than we can use. So, I've set up heated trays in the polytunnel. A long bench of trays with electric heating cables buried in sand. Tested it out last night and without any covering over it we had 9.8 degrees on the heated beds vs 1.2 degrees on the bench beside them. So now I'm thinking that with fleece over them at night I can probably get my tomatoes out onto my heated benches now?

But now I'm also wondering if I should keep my melons on heat (at night) all summer? We don't reliably get night time temps above 10 degrees until July/August and it's rare that it goes any higher than 10!

As for my setup:

1. Indoor 'greenhouse' - essentially shelves encased in a cover in front of a window. We have extra heat and solar in there when needed.

2. French windows in a cool room at the back of the house that gets morning sun only.

3. Polytunnel (now with heated bench)

4. Very sheltered south facing suntrap against the house.

5. Cold frame in sheltered south facing suntrap against the house.

So I'm trying to work out what should go where when it comes to starting off the more heat loving plants.

 

[DirtMechanic]

I'm planning on keeping the melon in the polytunnel. It's my first time, but I'm trying these short season cantaloupe from RealSeeds.

"
Minnesota Midget
First seen in 1948, this fantastic variety was bred for short summers - it swaps size for earliness - but without any sacrifice of sweetness or flavour. Compact vines grow about 4' and quickly set several small (cricketball-sized) melons with sweet orange flesh, edible right to the rind."

We have solar for the house (for the first year) and we've already got more energy than we can use. So, I've set up heated trays in the polytunnel. A long bench of trays with electric heating cables buried in sand. Tested it out last night and without any covering over it we had 9.8 degrees on the heated beds vs 1.2 degrees on the bench beside them. So now I'm thinking that with fleece over them at night I can probably get my tomatoes out onto my heated benches now?

But now I'm also wondering if I should keep my melons on heat (at night) all summer? We don't reliably get night time temps above 10 degrees until July/August and it's rare that it goes any higher than 10!

As for my setup:

1. Indoor 'greenhouse' - essentially shelves encased in a cover in front of a window. We have extra heat and solar in there when needed.

2. French windows in a cool room at the back of the house that gets morning sun only.

3. Polytunnel (now with heated bench)

4. Very sheltered south facing suntrap against the house.

5. Cold frame in sheltered south facing suntrap against the house.

So I'm trying to work out what should go where when it comes to starting off the more heat loving plants.

Suprisingly the roots are not particularly huge. They remind me more of a running yellow squash, sensitivity included. But...they are like a baby bird for feeding, always hungry!

 

[headfullofbees]

Since I am only a few miles down the coast from you, & my butterbush butternut squash are all through, I'd say NOW!!

 

[Susan BBPM]

I'll get started tomorrow then HFOB! I've got a load of pop up cloches so if they need to go out before it's warm enough I can protect them.

I've always grown scarlet emperor runner beans in the past an they are bullet proof. They are renowned for being more cold tolerant than most. This year I'm planning on growing Cszar beans (which make great drying beans) - they are also a runner. Will all varieties of runner do well for us? I'm trying to decide whether to risk putting a new type of runner in a spot where I very much want an early privacy screen!

 

[Tetters]

Since I am only a few miles down the coast from you, & my butterbush butternut squash are all through, I'd say NOW!!

Cor, bees, do you have a heated greenhouse for this? Can you grow melons too?
From time to time, if the neighbours are in their garden, Zigs will call out to me - "Shall I cut a melon for you"? I thought it was just a joke

 

[Toddz]

I'm planning on keeping the melon in the polytunnel. It's my first time, but I'm trying these short season cantaloupe from RealSeeds.

"
Minnesota Midget
First seen in 1948, this fantastic variety was bred for short summers - it swaps size for earliness - but without any sacrifice of sweetness or flavour. Compact vines grow about 4' and quickly set several small (cricketball-sized) melons with sweet orange flesh, edible right to the rind."

We have solar for the house (for the first year) and we've already got more energy than we can use. So, I've set up heated trays in the polytunnel. A long bench of trays with electric heating cables buried in sand. Tested it out last night and without any covering over it we had 9.8 degrees on the heated beds vs 1.2 degrees on the bench beside them. So now I'm thinking that with fleece over them at night I can probably get my tomatoes out onto my heated benches now?

But now I'm also wondering if I should keep my melons on heat (at night) all summer? We don't reliably get night time temps above 10 degrees until July/August and it's rare that it goes any higher than 10!

As for my setup:

1. Indoor 'greenhouse' - essentially shelves encased in a cover in front of a window. We have extra heat and solar in there when needed.

2. French windows in a cool room at the back of the house that gets morning sun only.

3. Polytunnel (now with heated bench)

4. Very sheltered south facing suntrap against the house.

5. Cold frame in sheltered south facing suntrap against the house.

So I'm trying to work out what should go where when it comes to starting off the more heat loving plants.

I grow Minnesota midget here in the United States and it did well in our zone 5 but we are zone 6 now so I hope it doesn't get to warm.

However I would love to hear an update on how it grows for you. I specialize in growing small short season melons.

 

[Susan BBPM]

I grow Minnesota midget here in the United States and it did well in our zone 5 but we are zone 6 now so I hope it doesn't get to warm.

However I would love to hear an update on how it grows for you. I specialize in growing small short season melons.

I'll definitely let you know.

Our typical daytime temps in mid summer are around 18 degrees and not much more than 10 degrees at night. A heatwave for us (rare) might make it to 22 degrees. We can't even rely on 10 degrees at night until July. However, I have a polytunnel and I have heating wires and solar energy so I can help it along early in the season.

The easiest approach would be to grow it in containers that can sit on my heated bench. That way I can give it a bit of extra heat any time the temps drop too much. I understand the vines grow to about 4 foot so there should be plenty of space. My only question is whether there will be enough nutrients and water in a smaller container? I'm thinking of something around a foot deep and 14 inches wide. Straight sided tubs so as wide at bottom as at top. What do you think? Alternatively I have 2 foot deep raised beds in my polytunnel and larger 60L tubs on the ground but they'd be harder to heat.

I'm also trying some short season/cool climate winter squash if you're interested in those too?

Thelma Saunders Hubbard
Anna Schwartz Acorn

And even a semi-determinate tomato that might have a chance outdoors in our climate

Latah

 

[headfullofbees]

"Cor, bees, do you have a heated greenhouse for this?"

I have a greenhouse with a wood-burning stove, but I use it only to protect from frost, as there is no advantage to molly-coddling plants; they only suffer later.
Having said that, I do use heated propagators to achieve the temperatures necessary for germination, but the seedlings are out as soon as they're through.

 

[headfullofbees]

I'll definitely let you know.

Our typical daytime temps in mid summer are around 18 degrees and not much more than 10 degrees at night. A heatwave for us (rare) might make it to 22 degrees. We can't even rely on 10 degrees at night until July. However, I have a polytunnel and I have heating wires and solar energy so I can help it along early in the season.

The easiest approach would be to grow it in containers that can sit on my heated bench. That way I can give it a bit of extra heat any time the temps drop too much. I understand the vines grow to about 4 foot so there should be plenty of space. My only question is whether there will be enough nutrients and water in a smaller container? I'm thinking of something around a foot deep and 14 inches wide. Straight sided tubs so as wide at bottom as at top. What do you think? Alternatively I have 2 foot deep raised beds in my polytunnel and larger 60L tubs on the ground but they'd be harder to heat.

I'm also trying some short season/cool climate winter squash if you're interested in those too?

Thelma Saunders Hubbard
Anna Schwartz Acorn

And even a semi-determinate tomato that might have a chance outdoors in our climate

Latah

For winter squash, I'm trying a BUSH butter-nut called "Butterbush" (great minds eh?) so that I can grow three in my greenhouse without tripping over them.
Raised beds warm earlier that normal, so definitely a good idea.

Outdoor girl & Red Alert are early enough to make it in our climate, & I'm trying a determinate beefstake tomato this year, called "Big League."

What to do, is to resign yourself to the idea that you many have to ripen your tomatoes indoors at the end of the season, because you'll get many that ripen naturally, & can eke out the rest over a longer period.

When I was a child & we ate fruit & veg more seasonally, I used to love the standard-sized Ayrshire tomatoes, & that's over 50 years ago, when they didn't have those ghastly ripening techniques, so if they could it then...