What can I use in my soil to make it retain less water? (Perlite Vs. Organic Soil)

[Mikenet82]

I'd like to ask a few questions here but my number one question is in regards to Perlite and organic soil. I'm reading that organic soil retains water well but I want to use it in my mix because my tree likes it. What I'm trying to do is add things that will allow the soil to dry faster. I know that perlite retains some water but I can't find out specifically if it retains less water than organic soil, (Black and Gold Organic Potting Soil) to be precise. Does anybody here know? If perlite retains so much as 15% less water than the soil itself I'll feel okay using it.

My secondary concern is where coarse sand comes into play, I'm afraid to add more because I don't want to compact the soil too much which is why I'm asking about perlite. I've added approximately 1/3 coarse sand (with a large grain size) to my mix to help it to retain less water but it still takes days before I can water again. It takes approximately 6 days and I'm worried about that because I'm not flushing nutrients down through the roots or flushing out any toxins that may be present. The largest concern is root rot, I already lost one of my small trees, I believe for this reason.

The only ingredients I have to work with right now are coarse sand and perlite. I have to repot one today so any suggestions on this would be much appreciated. I'm open to other things to try as well if anyone has input, perhaps something that isn't heavy and doesn't retain much water.

 

[Verdun]

Its not just about retaining moisture, its more about water draining away.
What are you growing? What exactly is happenjng....are you seeing puddles of water on the surface? You shouldnt need to water every day or two anyway.
Perlite mainly helps water to drain away...the large particles allow this but are also absorbent thus holding moisture.
In the garden soil I would use grit rather than perlite but coarse sand is good. Perlite is good for containers essentially to help with the drainage for plants that need that.
Are you over thinking something here Mike?
A soil holding moisture because of its organic content is good as long as it does eventually drain.

 

[alp]

@Verdun is right - Perlite mainly helps water to drain away..

And perlite opens up the compost a bit. Aids draining so that roots won't rot.

 

[alp]

If you're worried, you could

1) use a pot with tons of drainage holes, or you can drill holes on the side, like those used for orchids. People drill more holes to make sure the roots don't rot.
2) lift up the pots so that they sit on some legs. This way, water can drain away.

 

[alp]

@Chuck is right. Could you please take a pic of your soil with and without the mix please? If you're not using pot, you could dig holes of about 10 inches deep at 4 corners of your garden, pour water into them and time how long it takes the water to disappear. That way you can find out if all parts of your garden have water retentive soil such as clay ..

 

[Mikenet82]

Its not just about retaining moisture, its more about water draining away.
What are you growing? What exactly is happenjng....are you seeing puddles of water on the surface? You shouldnt need to water every day or two anyway.
Perlite mainly helps water to drain away...the large particles allow this but are also absorbent thus holding moisture.
In the garden soil I would use grit rather than perlite but coarse sand is good. Perlite is good for containers essentially to help with the drainage for plants that need that.
Are you over thinking something here Mike?
A soil holding moisture because of its organic content is good as long as it does eventually drain.

I'm growing Kratom Tree indoors (for now). No puddles are ever on the surface but the soil usually feels moist on the surface (they say water when the top layer is dry) and my moisture meter reads that the soil is always wet towards the middle and bottom of the pot. The two main concerns I have with not watering every 4 days or so is that the directions of my plant food say I should sprinkle it on the surface and refertilize once a month. If I'm watering so infrequently, how does the plant food reach the roots?

The other concern is root rot, I lost one tree already and it showed symptoms of being over watered, yet I barely watered it. Once the soil gets wet, it seems to stay wet. I'll look into grit, thanks for the tip on that.

 

[Chuck]

@Chuck is right. Could you please take a pic of your soil with and without the mix please? If you're not using pot, you could dig holes of about 10 inches deep at 4 corners of your garden, pour water into them and time how long it takes the water to disappear. That way you can find out if all parts of your garden have water retentive soil such as clay ..

I deleted the post because his garden is a container garden, I think. If not I can repost

 

[Mikenet82]

@Chuck It's an indoor plant with Black Gold Organic Potting Mix as a base.

@alp I thought of that one, I have a pot with holes all over it that's designed to give air to the roots and self-prune to prevent plants from becoming rootbound. I can't get a picture quite yet, right now the mix is 3 parts black gold soil, 1 part coarse sand and 0.5 parts perlite.

_________________________________

Does anyone know specifically if the perlite will retain less water than organic soil? Both are said to retain water, but I'm hoping the perlite would not only help aerate and drain but hold onto at least slightly less water than the organic soil on its own, that stuff is like a sponge.

Thanks for the tips so far

 

[Chuck]

@Chuck It's an indoor plant with Black Gold Organic Potting Mix as a base.

@alp I thought of that one, I have a pot with holes all over it that's designed to give air to the roots and self-prune to prevent plants from becoming rootbound. I can't get a picture quite yet, right now the mix is 3 parts black gold soil, 1 part coarse sand and 0.5 parts perlite.

_________________________________

Does anyone know specifically if the perlite will retain less water than organic soil? Both are said to retain water, but I'm hoping the perlite would not only help aerate and drain but hold onto at least slightly less water than the organic soil on its own, that stuff is like a sponge.

Thanks for the tips so far

From what I've read about the plant what you have now is fine. These trees grow wild in SEA without any human help. You should water this tree just like any other. When its DRY 2 inches deep saturate the soil. As for fertilizing use something like HastaGro everytime you water and that will be plenty. These trees receive very little water when it is not monsoon season. Just keep it slightly moist at the roots. If you are watering every 6 days and the roots are wet that leaves at least 4 days more for the plant to drain after saturating. If you are still uncomfortable add about 15-20% perlite as it is easier to use than coarse compost. What you are actually doing is trying to force feed the plant and in the long term it will not succeed. In other words read the plant not the directions.

 

[Mikenet82]

From what I've read about the plant what you have now is fine. These trees grow wild in SEA without any human help. You should water this tree just like any other. When its DRY 2 inches deep saturate the soil. As for fertilizing use something like HastaGro everytime you water and that will be plenty. These trees receive very little water when it is not monsoon season. Just keep it slightly moist at the roots. If you are watering every 6 days and the roots are wet that leaves at least 4 days more for the plant to drain after saturating. If you are still uncomfortable add about 15-20% perlite as it is easier to use than coarse compost. What you are actually doing is trying to force feed the plant and in the long term it will not succeed. In other words read the plant not the directions.

I'm not sure it's fine, I've had sick trees off and on for months, one of which died. The grower that sold me the plant believes it's an oversaturation issue, though they're short with me and won't tell me what soil mixture they use. Although the symptoms I've seen does fit what the grower suggested. Leaves that are distorted/curly at times, or fall off, continuous problems with fungus gnats which I'm treating with organic pesticides and sticky pads, and visible fungus isn't uncommon either, unfortunately.

You're suggesting that I can add 15-20% perlite, I can try that but do you know if it retains less water than organic soil? That's the key question I'm unsure on.

 

[Chuck]

I'm not sure it's fine, I've had sick trees off and on for months, one of which died. The grower that sold me the plant believes it's an oversaturation issue, though they're short with me and won't tell me what soil mixture they use. Although the symptoms I've seen does fit what the grower suggested. Leaves that are distorted/curly at times, or fall off, continuous problems with fungus gnats which I'm treating with organic pesticides and sticky pads, and visible fungus isn't uncommon either, unfortunately.

You're suggesting that I can add 15-20% perlite, I can try that but do you know if it retains less water than organic soil? That's the key question I'm unsure on.

Distorted/curly leaves is either too much fertilizer, severe weather change or a virus. Fungus knats means the soil is to wet. And fungus, a sure sign of too much water. You are just watering too often. Only water when the plant needs it, not when you decide it might be thirsty. You cannot kill a plant by overwatering it but you can and will kill a plant by watering to often.


I don't know if it retains more or less. All I know about perlite is that it helps drainage and aeration. And it seems that your soil holds water very well. And I know that an indoor plant being watered every 4 days is way too often to water a tree. You should be watering an indoor tree probably every 10 days or so. Oh, and what type of container is it in. Clay, porcelain or plastic. If porcelain or plastic then you're REALLY over watering. IMO nothing needs to be done except to stop watering and fertilizing so often.
Did you know that watering too often is the #1 cause of plant death? More than all of the plant diseases combined. Its true

 

[Mikenet82]

Distorted/curly leaves is either too much fertilizer, severe weather change or a virus. Fungus knats means the soil is to wet. And fungus, a sure sign of too much water. You are just watering too often. Only water when the plant needs it, not when you decide it might be thirsty. You cannot kill a plant by overwatering it but you can and will kill a plant by watering to often.


I don't know if it retains more or less. All I know about perlite is that it helps drainage and aeration. And it seems that your soil holds water very well. And I know that an indoor plant being watered every 4 days is way too often to water a tree. You should be watering an indoor tree probably every 10 days or so. Oh, and what type of container is it in. Clay, porcelain or plastic. If porcelain or plastic then you're REALLY over watering. IMO nothing needs to be done except to stop watering and fertilizing so often.
Did you know that watering too often is the #1 cause of plant death? More than all of the plant diseases combined. Its true

It's in a plastic pot with holes up and down the sides for self pruning and aeration. I did know that watering too often can kill a plant. I've read as well about many people worring about soil staying wet for more than a few days between watering. I've cut back with the watering a while back, which helped but some problems remain with infrequent watering so I dont know.

I'm testing out 1 cup wet organic soil and 1 cup wet perlite to see which dries out first to help with that part. I'll keep that in mind with the curly leaves

 

[Mikenet82]

@alp @Chuck (and anyone else who can help with the soil or tree), here's a picture of the soil that was requested along with a picture of the tree itself to help. It's easy to see from the upper leaves that there's a problem. I just watered today for the first time in about 8 -10 days because the top inch (give or take) was finally bone dry, but the distortion of the top leaves has gotten noticeably worse overnight. Does it look like the tree has an infection of some kind that just got aided by being watered or does it look like something else? It's only the leaves on top which look distorted if that's any help. The leaves are still mostly green for now but I don't know if that'll hold for long.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/62j7zzocjdi5iim/10 5 17 sick small tree.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8s3b8xabbn422aj/10 5 17 sick small tree (2).jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zz0frf8k0jqvclq/10 5 17 sick small tree (3).jpg?dl=0

I couldn't figure out how to get the built-in image button to work right with Dropbox so these are straight Dropbox images instead.

 

[alp]

@Mikenet82 I don't know what the icon does as it asks for an url ??

Use the Upload a File below and upload your jpg files.

It looks OK to me, but I'm no expert.

Any way, as Verdun says, perlite is used to open up some compost to aid or facilitate drainage. Generally, it is used to propagate new cuttings (They retain some auxins and can be re-used for propagating plants like streptocarpus leaves - have to say it's quite an expensive way to do so!) or prevent roots rotting in wet compost. Google the type of soil this plant needs might be a better idea.

 

[Mikenet82]

@alp In my new mix I upped the perlite amount some, I think it'll help based on the commenting here and test I'm running.

And yea, the upload a picture button was requiring a URL and the only image hosting site that I use online is Dropbox.

but the upload a file button does work, thanks! (slaps forehead)

As a side note, when I repotted it appears that the root structure of my tree has gotten at least twice as big, yet the tree hasn't grown. I'm not sure if that information is useful here but it seems odd to me.