Watermlons, Cantelopes, Spaghetti Squash etc.

[kribensis12]

Hello.

I attempted to grow Spaghetti Squash this past year and it did not go well - the plants were huge but the squash never were bigger than a few ounces and then they would just... die.

I believe that my biggest failure last year was that the planting area was overcrowded (for sure) and the variety of plants around it reduced air flow and caused powdery mildew to appear.

This year, I have my sights set far bigger. I would like to relocate the squash to their own separate, well ventilated and full sun patch. I would also like to grow Klondike Watermelons, a (singular) cucumber plant, a (singular) zucchini plant, 3 spaghetti squash and 1 cantaloupe.

How large of a square would you recommend I till and compost? What would the best arrangement be? I want to use the least amount of space possible and have the most plants possible (as every gardener does). Does anyone with far more experience growing these types of plants have any advice?


P.S. The type of soil I have is Rozetta Silt Loam - if anyone is curious.

 

[Chuck]

Since you are going to the work, trouble and expense of tilling, till the largest area you can. It is impossible to say within any degree of certainty how much area a plant will take up. As my dad always said "too much is just about right".

 

[kribensis12]

How far apart should I plant each type? I know that I can do up to 3 watermelon vinse per mound. I don't want to overcrowd. Any other tips to being successful?

 

[Chuck]

How far apart should I plant each type? I know that I can do up to 3 watermelon vinse per mound. I don't want to overcrowd. Any other tips to being successful?

A vine 15 feet long and there may be numerous vines on a single plant, is not uncommon in watermelons. I plant mine so each plant is about 2 feet apart but you can plant closer. Plant squash and zucs about 3 feet apart. Put your cucs on a trellis.

 

[TomatoTango]

Sounds like a phosphorous or potassium deficiency but could be micronutrient related as well. I would add natural ingredients to your tilling like bat guano, fish bone meal, and rock powder like gypsum, phosphate, and azomite. Additionally, I would supplement the plants while blooming with a liquid fertilizer and top dressing.

 

[Chuck]

When I first tried to grow watermelons the plant grew great but the fruit was tiny and many of them had blossom end rot. This was before I learned about epsom salts. Now I get good fruit. If your soil is alkaline like mine sprinkle a big handful around the root zone of the plant.

 

[kribensis12]

Thanks for all the replies, I have been busy this past week!

Is there a recommended cheap testing kit I can use to analyze my soil? I would imagine that most of the required minerals are all there - I just added 1/2 ton of compost to a 18 by 20 area and tilled it in. The soil there is a little clay like and adding the compost has made a significant improvement. I also dose periodically with liquid fertilizer in the summer.

 

[kribensis12]

After doing some digging (pun intended), I believe I may have a magnesium deficiency.

Last year my cherry tomatoes did AMAZINGLY. BUT, my bell peppers did not produce well AT ALL. I had 4 pepper plants and they were HUGE (like 2-3 ft tall) and they produce a combined total of 4 peppers. I thought I must have had a bad batch of peppers! Then the spaghetti squash incident...... The leaves were beginning to yellow, the stems were getting thin and weak, they were blossoming but not producing. Seems to fit the description.

I have a large garden with a ton of different plants in it - should I be concerned about some of their well beings if I begin dosing with epsom salt?

 

[TomatoTango]

I stopped using Epsom salts years ago and don’t believe it does a whole lot. Micronutrient foliar sprays and liquid root feedings of a bloom solution on the other hand have given me explosive results. Till in or side dress what’s deficient or the problem will continue to resurface. Once a plant is deficient the problem is not always correctable.

 

[kribensis12]

Is there a recommended kit for testing my soil? I've spoken with a guy I know - does a LOT of organic gardening (not that I'm against using a traditional method per say) and he says what I'm describing to him does not sound like a magnesium deficiency. He thinks my soil might be too high in nitrogen causing the explosive growth of the pepper plants but barely any peppers.

Thoughts on this?

 

[TomatoTango]

It could be but unless you amended it with a bunch of synthetic nitrogen, it’s doubtful. Often if you have too much nitrogen the plant won’t even attempt to flower or fruit. I don’t test my soil as I consider it an inaccurate waste of time. I would test the ph of the water on the other hand. If you’re worried about it, find a test kit at a garden center or online.

 

[kribensis12]

I do dose with Miracle periodically through the season, but not enough to cause a nitrogen overload.

I know that the pH of our water is very alkaline, with a pH of 8.4 (I'm an aquarist also) - that's out of the tap. I also know that our water has a high level of dissolved solids which make the pH very hard to change without cutting the water with RO water. I'm not sure the pH of the soil because I know that natural buffers usually lower it after tap water has been added. Is the pH likely to affect the production of blooms and fruit? I was under the assumption that the plants overall would be sickly if they were in an intolerable pH range.

 

[Chuck]

I do dose with Miracle periodically through the season, but not enough to cause a nitrogen overload.

I know that the pH of our water is very alkaline, with a pH of 8.4 (I'm an aquarist also) - that's out of the tap. I also know that our water has a high level of dissolved solids which make the pH very hard to change without cutting the water with RO water. I'm not sure the pH of the soil because I know that natural buffers usually lower it after tap water has been added. Is the pH likely to affect the production of blooms and fruit? I was under the assumption that the plants overall would be sickly if they were in an intolerable pH range.

I too have very alkaline soil and water. I think @TomatoTango is correct in saying that synthetic nitrogen is a problem. Miracle grow is a synthetic fertilizer. Now, having said that, leads me again to say that Epsom Salts might be your cure. Not so much on tomatoes but on peppers if I don't add about a cup of ES to a plant not only do I not get many blooms but the foliage is sparse. My advice is to stop using oil based synthetic fertilizers and go organic. That and at least try ES on some of the plants. On my tomatoes I can set and grow tomatoes without ES but on most varieties just about every tomato will get blossom end rot. BER happens when a plant cannot uptake calcium and ES somehow enables the plant to do so. I put it on everything except root and row crops and very rarely ever have a fruit have BER. The foliage and size of my pepper plants I would say is below average but each plant produces average if not more than average numbers of fruit and the same with tomatoes. I think ES basically works in alkaline soils and not so much in neutral or acidic soils.

 

[TomatoTango]

If you’re watering with an alkaline ph your soil will probably be alkaline. My well water comes out at 8.2 and if I water plants with that they don’t do so well. I add white vinegar to 5 gallon buckets and douse my plants with that at least every other watering. 1/4 cup per bucket makes the water come out around 6.5, which is what plants need in order to process calcium and some other micronutrients. An 8.4 is almost 2 points higher and I can guarantee the plant will be cut off from cal/mag almost entirely unless you have acidic soil (doubtful). This may be your entire problem. Feeding the plants with a liquid fertilizer will help but it’s not lowering the ph enough to cover the gap and may be masking other issues.

 

[kribensis12]

Thanks so far for all the extra knowledge! As a teacher I love to learn new things! So, here are my NEW questions.

1. What are good, affordable options for my pH issues? I water with a hose because the garden is so large, so I'm assuming that I would need to mix the soil with something - perhaps peat? If so, how much peat would I need for a 18 by 20 garden?

2. If I am unable to fix the pH issue, would adding epsom salt help most of my plants if they are struggling to uptake nutrients? My gut says no - because the pH is preventing them.

3. Doubting anyone can help make sense out of this, but my father lives a mile from me (same pH, everything.) and he knows NOTHING about his soil and can grow never ending amounts of cucumbers and peppers. He does not experience some of the issues I am. He does not add compost, rarely adds liquid fertilizer, does not water often and does not weed often. ---> Am I missing something? I feel like many people I know have no knowledge of the chemistry behind gardening and they are more successful than I, and living in a big city, we all have the same pH water.

Thanks for the help so far!