Small scale demonstration of biodynamic farming, soil replenishment, cover cropping, crop rotation, permaculture, polyculture, and organic gardening

[Meadowlark]

BACKGROUND

The common response when I present the techniques I use for gardening is that the techniques will not scale down to small applications. In this thread I will attempt to demonstrate that this premise is incorrect, that in fact the techniques do scale down to as small as ONE single container. Stay tuned for results…. good or bad…success or failure.

The container used in this demonstration is a converted cattle feed tub with drainage holes added and decaying wood (permaculture) as the bottom layer, composted twigs, leaves, pine straw, etc. (permaculture) as the next layer, and my garden soil as the top layer(organic). I call these Hügelkultur containers (HK containers).

Earlier this year, I conducted an experiment on growing potatoes in these HK containers and I have selected one HK container from that experiment to use in this demonstration. I have respectfully labeled this HK container “Headfullofbees” who has on many occasions challenged the applicability of these techniques to small scale gardening. The soil in that container after growing potatoes was very much depleted. See Table 1 below.

Nutrient​	Your Results​	Optimal Range​	Rating​
pH	6.6​	5.8-7.0​	Optimal​
Total Nitrogen (N)	3.21​	32.0-60.0​	Low​
Nitrate (NO3-N)	1.64​	-​	-​
Ammonium (NH4-N)	1.58​	-​	-​
Phosphorus (P)	45.25​	8.0-20.0​	High​
Potassium (K)	6.87​	38.0-80.0​	Low​
Sulfur (S)	9.8​	7.0-22.0​	Optimal​
Calcium (Ca)	460.86​	80.0-320.0​	High​
Magnesium (Mg)	18.45​	27.0-70.0​	Low​
Sodium (Na)	15.69​	0.5-30.0​	Optimal​
Iron (Fe)	1.12​	3.0-10.0​	Low​
Manganese (Mn)	5.54​	4.0-10.0​	Optimal​
Zinc (Zn)	0.52​	0.1-0.25​	High​
Copper (Cu)	0.07​	0.06-0.3​	Optimal​
Boron (B)	0.09​	0.2-0.6​	Low​

My normal approach to this situation would be to change out that soil exchanging it for “No N-P-K required “garden soil. However, for this demonstration, I will attempt to replenish that soil in situ using the same techniques I use on a larger scale.

The first step (May 31) in this application is to add well composted cattle manure to the top layer of the HK container (biodynamic farming). The compost is mixed in well in the top layer, not simply laid on top as in no dig. One small potato escaped harvesting.

Subsequent posts be time sequenced: June, July, and results summarized. If interested stay tuned and if not ignore.

 

[Meadowlark]

JUNE

The next step (June 3) in this application is to plant a legume fixing agent Sunn Hemp (cover crop, soil replenishment, crop rotation). Other legumes could certainly be used but I have found this particular one, Sunn Hemp, to be the most effective at soil building during summer months. One tablespoonful (15 ml) of seed was scattered on the surface of the HK container. The seed germinated quickly.

Two weeks later (June 16) I had a nice stand of green manure.

Now to enhance this soil conditioning, I “mowed” the container with a hedge trimmer carefully allowing the clippings to fall into the container soil. This is sometimes referred to as chop and drop.

By the end of June, the Sunn Hemp had regrown to another nice stand of green matter.

The next post which will be for JULY, will demonstrate organic farming technique of using green manure and then we will wait for results. Again, stay tuned if interested.

 

[YumYum]

Is that chart in pounds per acre or ppm?

 

[Meadowlark]

ppm. That's pretty standard for soil test results I'm aware of.

 

[YumYum]

ppm. That's pretty standard for soil test results I'm aware of.

I've had both from the exact same place for some reason, on different years of course.

 

[Meadowlark]

Yes, then the recommendations often are given in pounds per a specific N-P-K %. That has always bothered the Engineer in me.

 

[headfullofbees]

BACKGROUND

The common response when I present the techniques I use for gardening is that the techniques will not scale down to small applications. In this thread I will attempt to demonstrate that this premise is incorrect, that in fact the techniques do scale down to as small as ONE single container. Stay tuned for results…. good or bad…success or failure.

The container used in this demonstration is a converted cattle feed tub with drainage holes added and decaying wood (permaculture) as the bottom layer, composted twigs, leaves, pine straw, etc. (permaculture) as the next layer, and my garden soil as the top layer(organic). I call these Hügelkultur containers (HK containers).

Earlier this year, I conducted an experiment on growing potatoes in these HK containers and I have selected one HK container from that experiment to use in this demonstration. I have respectfully labeled this HK container “Headfullofbees” who has on many occasions challenged the applicability of these techniques to small scale gardening. The soil in that container after growing potatoes was very much depleted. See Table 1 below.

Nutrient​	Your Results​	Optimal Range​	Rating​
pH	6.6​	5.8-7.0​	Optimal​
Total Nitrogen (N)	3.21​	32.0-60.0​	Low​
Nitrate (NO3-N)	1.64​	-​	-​
Ammonium (NH4-N)	1.58​	-​	-​
Phosphorus (P)	45.25​	8.0-20.0​	High​
Potassium (K)	6.87​	38.0-80.0​	Low​
Sulfur (S)	9.8​	7.0-22.0​	Optimal​
Calcium (Ca)	460.86​	80.0-320.0​	High​
Magnesium (Mg)	18.45​	27.0-70.0​	Low​
Sodium (Na)	15.69​	0.5-30.0​	Optimal​
Iron (Fe)	1.12​	3.0-10.0​	Low​
Manganese (Mn)	5.54​	4.0-10.0​	Optimal​
Zinc (Zn)	0.52​	0.1-0.25​	High​
Copper (Cu)	0.07​	0.06-0.3​	Optimal​
Boron (B)	0.09​	0.2-0.6​	Low​

My normal approach to this situation would be to change out that soil exchanging it for “No N-P-K required “garden soil. However, for this demonstration, I will attempt to replenish that soil in situ using the same techniques I use on a larger scale.

The first step (May 31) in this application is to add well composted cattle manure to the top layer of the HK container (biodynamic farming). The compost is mixed in well in the top layer, not simply laid on top as in no dig. One small potato escaped harvesting.



View attachment 98224

Subsequent posts be time sequenced: June, July, and results summarized. If interested stay tuned and if not ignore.

I'm honoured.
Are you seriously going to tell me that you operate a 4 year crop rotation, with each portion of the tub equal to 90deg, in order to prevent disease from spreading through the tub?

 

[Meadowlark]

LOL, where did you get 4 years? No way. I said nothing about 90 deg either. It's the entire tub as pictured.

I'm looking at 6 weeks minimum to totally replenish the depleted soil in the Headfullofbees container in situ without any synthetic chemicals. It may take longer, such as 12 weeks, but we will see. 12 weeks is my normal turnaround time using Sunn Hemp as the rotation and cover enabler, but in a concentrated area such as the Headfullofbees HK container, I believe it can be done in half the time of the larger garden area.

By the way, I'm doing this at a time when it is 100/100 every day (100 deg f and 100% humidity with zero rainfall so far) and nighttime temps never below 80 deg. F. In other words, I'm not losing any growing time during this period because very little grows in those conditions. It is the perfect time to replenish/rotate even better than dead of winter. No loss of productivity.

At the end of 6 weeks, I will test the soil and I'm expecting it will be ready for a crop and I'll probably do a poly crop there to further add to the demonstration. The crop may or may not include potatoes. I haven't decided yet, but it wouldn't bother me at all to plant potatoes there IF the test results support it.

In the six weeks' time I will have accomplished rotation benefits as well as replenishment benefits...if this goes as planned. If not, I will run it another 6 weeks with another cover crop and test again. I'm looking for "NO N-P-K required" on the test results and a nutrient density score above 90%. If it takes longer than 6 weeks, I won't be surprised or disappointed but continue to search for the right timing.

4 years? Oh no not even close. I'm looking at 6 weeks minimum and if not that, then whatever it takes, but certainly not 4 years.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Charles Dowding grows multiple crops in a single bed. He starts them out as plug plants to get a month's head start so even in his short season climate he can get perhaps 4 crops in a season. All he adds to his beds is 1 inch of compost in December. He's been doing this for many years. He is a commercial grower.

So similar idea, but he composts everything and tops all of his beds once a year.

BUT....

It's interesting that you're trying this in a container. The no dig approach that Dowding uses relies on the soil life/bacterior/fungi to feed the crops. He feeds his soil every December with an inch of garden compost and mother nature does the rest. But in a container you don't have that soil life? In containers you need to feed the plants rather than relying on feeding the soil and letting the soil life feed the plants. My understanding has always been that you can't rely on simply feeding the soil in containers as it can so easily be wiped out by heavy rain (drowning) or soil drying out. But you seem to be relying on keeping a little ecosystem alive in a pot?

 

[Meadowlark]

I just noticed that in the starting point soil test data I provided, I failed to include the nutrient density score.

For this test container, the nutrient density at the start was 51% which is considered median by the test lab, but I consider it poor. I strive for a score over 90% and that will be the target of this demonstration of soil replenishment.

The PDF file with the nutrient density score is too large to attach here...but if anyone doesn't trust me and wants to see it, I can take a photo and attach. Otherwise...51% is the starting point.

 

[Meadowlark]

Charles Dowding grows ...

Thank you for your interest but let me be very clear please...this is not about Charles Dowding nor his no dig approach.

Far from it. It is about the traditional techniques I use on a large garden applied to a small scale garden...one single HK container. That is about as small as I can imagine.

1) The first step in this was to dig and mix in my home grown compost into the top layer of the depleted soil in the container. Not "no dig" and prohibited by no dig approach.

2) The second step was to plant the cover crop, Sunn Hemp by scattering it on the surface of the soil previously mixed with my compost.

3) The third step was to "chop and drop" the cover crop after it grew over a foot or so.

4) The fourth step was to apply the regrown green manure of Sunn Hemp to the soil (again over a foot of growth after the chop and drop). This is NOT "No dig" and is in fact prohibited by no dig advocates as I understand it. A small garden trowel was used to turn the green Sunn Hemp into the soil just like I normally do with a disc or tiller in the large garden. Same thing. I consider application of green manure as a critical step to achieving nutrient dense crops and again understand this is prohibited by no dig advocates.

5) I'm waiting for the green manure to be assimilated into the depleted soil. I expect the act of turning it under, again prohibited by no dig, will expedite the magic of green manure.

6) Next step will be the soil test. I'm striving for "No N-P-K required" result and a nutrient density score above 90% in a six-week demonstration. If it doesn't work, I'll go 12 weeks, etc. until I achieve the objective of demonstrating that the traditional techniques I use on a large garden are easily and effectively applied to a small container.

7) Last step which will only be completed after the targets are met, will be to harvest a poly crop from the replenished container.

Again, thank you for your interest but this is not about No Dig.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Thank you for your interest but let me be very clear please...this is not about Charles Dowding nor his no dig approach.

Far from it. It is about the traditional techniques I use on a large garden applied to a small scale garden...one single HK container. That is about as small as I can imagine.

1) The first step in this was to dig and mix in my home grown compost into the top layer of the depleted soil in the container. Not "no dig" and prohibited by no dig approach.

2) The second step was to plant the cover crop, Sunn Hemp by scattering it on the surface of the soil previously mixed with my compost.

3) The third step was to "chop and drop" the cover crop after it grew over a foot or so.

4) The fourth step was to apply the regrown green manure of Sunn Hemp to the soil (again over a foot of growth after the chop and drop). This is NOT "No dig" and is in fact prohibited by no dig advocates as I understand it. A small garden trowel was used to turn the green Sunn Hemp into the soil just like I normally do with a disc or tiller in the large garden. Same thing. I consider application of green manure as a critical step to achieving nutrient dense crops and again understand this is prohibited by no dig advocates.

5) I'm waiting for the green manure to be assimilated into the depleted soil. I expect the act of turning it under, again prohibited by no dig, will expedite the magic of green manure.

6) Next step will be the soil test. I'm striving for "No N-P-K required" result and a nutrient density score above 90% in a six-week demonstration. If it doesn't work, I'll go 12 weeks, etc. until I achieve the objective of demonstrating that the traditional techniques I use on a large garden are easily and effectively applied to a small container.

7) Last step which will only be completed after the targets are met, will be to harvest a poly crop from the replenished container.

Again, thank you for your interest but this is not about No Dig.

Yes, I appreciate that. I shared brief info about an approach I am knowledgeable about as background to my question to you.

As I said, in a no dig approach the aim is to feed the soil life - the soil life feeds that plants. My understanding is that the goal is the same when using Green Manure? You are aiming to feed the soil life and NOT the plants?

Assuming that your approach also aims to feed the soil life, then my question to you was how well this works in a container? Typically, people fertilize container grown plants because the soil life struggles to survive in a pot. It is not therefore capable of sustaining an environment that will feed your plants. Are you attempting to create a little ecosystem in a container? How practical would this be outside of a very focussed experiment where ideal conditions can be maintained.

 

[Meadowlark]

No, no, no I'm simply demonstrating, or trying to at least, that the traditional techniques I use in my large garden scale down to a small container. I have been challenged many many times on this forum, mostly by UK folks, that you can't do what I do (and what my ancestors and Native Indians did for centuries) on a small scale.

Please don't make this into something it is NOT. It is NOT about Charles Dowding.

How well does this work in a container? My experience thus far is that HK containers work exceedingly well...if the starting point is right. Over a year of HK container growing, over 38 different varieties of veggies plus 12 distinct varieties of potatoes all have been successful when the soil is right at the beginning.

That's what this is all about...getting the soil right in a container at the beginning. I believe I can do that with traditional techniques I use large scale applied in situ to a small container. I don't know if it will take 6 weeks or 12 weeks or more. I'm sure someone will complain if it takes more than one day, LOL.

Headfullofbees has already complained about it being 4 years...where did that come from? Good grief!

"Ideal conditions" you say. Do you consider daytime temps of 100 deg f, humidity levels of 100%, nighttime temps never falling below 80 deg f, no rainfall all during this demonstration ...do you consider that as Ideal? Good grief already!

Check the World weather and you will see I'm 100% correct. Texas is in a massive prolonged unrelenting heat wave. Ideal conditions...ridiculous.

 

[Susan BBPM]

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't scale down. But it's specifically about how the soil life survives in a container that I was scurious about. But I've started a separate thread. Sorry to intrude xx

 

[Meadowlark]

Thank you for leaving.

This thread is about answering Headfullofbees intelligent challenges to the large garden techniques I use. He has stated repeatedly they will not scale down. I believe they will. We will see and see how long it will take in situ.

I know I can very easily and effectively change out the top layer of HK container soil in about two minutes.... replacing the depleted soil with my garden soil that is "No N-P-K required" and 94% nutrient dense as determined by scientific testing.

That is absolutely all my HK containers get...38 different veggies plus 12 distinct varieties of potatoes over more than a year of growing seasons. Nothing but great garden soil and water.

No "tea", no fertilizers, no treatments, no sprays, nothing but water followed by great nutrient dense produce.

The key is that great starting point. I believe I can achieve that starting point readily either with replacement garden soil or in situ using the traditional techniques of farming. We will see.