Skipping Dormancy for foliage growth, affects on fruiting?

Discussion in 'Fruits' started by Montray Davis, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Montray Davis

    Montray Davis

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    Hello, and thanks for reading my thread. It's been a while since I've been here. Mostly due to the weather and working :p.

    Nonetheless, I have a question that I am hoping a few of you can answer.

    Regarding fruiting trees which require dormancy such as Apple Trees, Peach/Plum trees, Pear trees, etc. If I skip out on dormancy for a few years (growing indoors) so that it has a year-round foliage growth, will this hamper fruit production in the future? Does it have any negative effects on deciduous trees?

    I realize that I won't get fruit without dormancy.
    What I am hoping is that I can give a tree a few years of year-round growth and then place it in it's natural environment at my desired size.

    Have any experiments of such been done that anyone knows of?

    Thanks for reading :).

    Happy Gardening.
     
    Montray Davis, Jan 6, 2018
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  2. Montray Davis

    MoonShadows

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    It's an interesting question. I have no idea about the answer, though. I'm curious about it.
    Also... 2fc364d732a9382edaa1c41c908.gif
     
    MoonShadows, Jan 6, 2018
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  3. Montray Davis

    Montray Davis

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    Same here. It randomly came across me after seeing my Kumquat bloom pretty much year-round while my other outside trees only bloom certain parts of the year as well as lots of luscious leaf growth.

    It makes me wonder if this same sort of thing would happen to deciduous trees but minus the fruit.

    PS: Thanks for the welcoming back :) . Glad to be back.
     
    Montray Davis, Jan 6, 2018
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  4. Montray Davis

    Chuck

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    Dormancy is a protective means of certain plants during times of chilling weather. I can only tell you what I have noticed on my peach trees. For the past 2 years I have not had enough chilling hours for my varieties of peach. What this has done is, IMO, not a fatal thing but a possibly serious thing. Stone fruit such as peaches actually grow their next years buds during the summer and then fruit in the spring. Without enough chilling hours (temps 45F and below) the buds and in my case also, the foliage growth is affected the following year. I don't think that this will affect the trees long term health but I can't be certain of this. This year there will be more than enough chilling hours and I will have to see what 2 years of no dormancy or partial dormancy has actually done to my trees. The only thing I have noticed so far that is different is that there aren't as many leaves. I could actually see through the trees this past summer and that the leaves when they change colors in the fall are a much much more brilliant reddish orange than previous.
     
    Chuck, Jan 6, 2018
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  5. Montray Davis

    alp

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    You mean the tree has a year or two of dormancy? Can't understand how YOU can skip dormancy.. But I'm no expert. I noticed that my plum often fruit one year and then 2 year without. Sometimes, the weather also cause my fruit tree to skip fruiting. I noticed that the year with lots of snow, I have big and juicy and happy fragrant peaches. One year was so cold that I didn't see any flowers and hence no peaches at all - only one year though.
     
    alp, Jan 6, 2018
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  6. Montray Davis

    Chuck

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    Each variety of stone fruit (peaches, plums, apricots etc) has a number of required chilling hours each year. For instance, a variety of peach called June Gold, a mid to low chilling hour peach, is 600 hours of below 45F. If it only get 300 hours it will not perform but if it gets 800 hours it will do great. The buds and foliage actually start in the summer and the chilling hours are when they fully form. If they don't get enough hours below 45F they do not form properly. And some varieties of stone fruit are called alternate bearers, meaning that they will have a large crop, with enough chilling hours, only every other year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
    Chuck, Jan 6, 2018
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  7. Montray Davis

    Montray Davis

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    Thanks for your reply! This is perfect.
    Hopefully I remember to reach out to you in the summer to see what effects your tree experiences if any.
    My assumption was sort of the same -- thinking no dormancy would probably only affect fruit short term. I hope so anyways. :p


    To skip dormancy, I just bring my tree inside under grow lights. I have a fig tree that is actively growing right now while pretty much everything outside is already dormant. :p
     
    Montray Davis, Jan 6, 2018
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  8. Montray Davis

    Chuck

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    Figs are different. They will go dormant under the correct conditions but do not require dormancy to fruit.
     
    Chuck, Jan 6, 2018
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  9. Montray Davis

    Montray Davis

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    Thanks for this!! I've always wondered why my Fig tree seemed to go dormant really late. My fig tree in my backyard goes into what appears to be a semi-dormant stage. It has like 6 leaves that it's been holding onto all fall/winter and are just now starting to die off. Totally explains and is a great thing to know! :D

    Does dormancy in Figs increase fruit production?
     
    Montray Davis, Jan 7, 2018
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  10. Montray Davis

    MaryMary Quite Contrary

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    Montray Davis!! (y) :cool: :D Good to see you!!

    I'm too curious - did you ever figure out what it was that was not a kiwi? https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/this-is-not-a-kiwi.8933/


    I found your question asked in a different forum - about walnut trees. It was answered by a lot of horticultural - agricultural - botany specialists, and it seems no one is really sure. I think it would be worth the experiment, but the experimenting is half the fun for me. :oops: :rolleyes:

    https://www.researchgate.net/post/what_happens_when_plants_dont_go_dormant


    I also found this article from the Michigan State University Extension. I snipped bits for you, but I think you'll want to read it! :)



    I'm wondering if it might be better to let them go dormant, but then bring them inside early? Most plants accelerate their growth in the spring - instead of trying to grow them year-round, maybe they'd grow faster overall if you fool them into thinking spring is early? If the accelerated growth would outpace the slow but steady growth...?


    Do you have more than one of each? ;) :D
     
    MaryMary, Jan 7, 2018
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  11. Montray Davis

    alp

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    I was wondering how YOU can skip dormancy! Epiphany moment! Sounds like your trees are small. I personally wouldn't want to lug my newly bought trees. They weight something. I have left them in the sunniest sheltered spots and let nature take its course.

    Nice to read so much from Chuck .. so informative!
     
    alp, Jan 7, 2018
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  12. Montray Davis

    Upsy Daisy

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    Great thread @Montray Davis ......very ,very interesting:)(y)

    Good to have you back posting, and I'm with @MaryMary.....what was the mystery ' kiwi ' ?
     
    Upsy Daisy, Jan 7, 2018
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  13. Montray Davis

    Chuck

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    NO
     
    Chuck, Jan 7, 2018
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  14. Montray Davis

    Montray Davis

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    Very interesting! Seems like I am not the only one interested in how postponing dormancy effects tree growth. Thanks! :D


    Regarding the Kiwi thing, no, I ended up losing the plant. Somehow one day I went outside and it was just GONE..... Like someone took it or something :( I was pretty sad.

    Not really sure what happened though at some point I was starting to almost be certain it was a cactus.! :eek:
    I wish I had taken some pictures prior to :(
     
    Montray Davis, Jan 7, 2018
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  15. Montray Davis

    Silentrunning

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    @Chuck - does this hold true for apples and pears too? Do they require a certain number of chilling hours as well?
     
    Silentrunning, Jan 7, 2018
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  16. Montray Davis

    Chuck

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    I will try to explain what dormancy does. Dormancy is what makes a nut or fruit tree produce or not produce buds/ foliage and it all depends on the variety of the tree as to how many chilling hours are required during dormancy. DORMANCY IS A GROWTH REGULATOR. If, for instance you have a high chilling hour tree and it does not receive the proper number of chilling hours, the buds and the foliage will be detrimentally affected. If you have a low chilling hour tree and it still does not receive the correct amount of chilling hours the same thing happens. It cannot be changed as it is in the plants DNA. Dormancy is caused by daylight length AND temperatures. Moving a plant indoors during winter will not COMPLETELY stop a plant from going dormant unless you can figure out a way to mimic the sun as in the spring and summer.. Having said this, what happens is that by NOT going dormant the tree cannot produce the necessary foliage and buds necessary for the following spring and summers growth. As I stated on a previous post, the foliage on my trees were severely affected by too few chilling hours for 2 consecutive years and I didn't get a single peach either. I do not think that moving a fruit tree indoors during the winter will be fatal but it certainly isn't good for the tree. And how would you move a 3 or 4 year old peach tree indoors anyway?
     
    Chuck, Jan 7, 2018
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  17. Montray Davis

    Chuck

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    Yes. All fruit and nut trees except tropical require X number of chilling hours.
     
    Chuck, Jan 7, 2018
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  18. Montray Davis

    alp

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    Here in the UK, you can buy one for £1. Or get a seed and sow it. That's why I did with my tomatoes.
     
    alp, Jan 7, 2018
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  19. Montray Davis

    Montray Davis

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    I appreciate everyones' help! :)

    Happy Gardening .
     
    Montray Davis, Jan 13, 2018
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  20. Montray Davis

    alp

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    (y)
     
    alp, Jan 13, 2018
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