Skipping Dormancy for foliage growth, affects on fruiting?

[Montray Davis]

Hello, and thanks for reading my thread. It's been a while since I've been here. Mostly due to the weather and working .

Nonetheless, I have a question that I am hoping a few of you can answer.

Regarding fruiting trees which require dormancy such as Apple Trees, Peach/Plum trees, Pear trees, etc. If I skip out on dormancy for a few years (growing indoors) so that it has a year-round foliage growth, will this hamper fruit production in the future? Does it have any negative effects on deciduous trees?

I realize that I won't get fruit without dormancy.
What I am hoping is that I can give a tree a few years of year-round growth and then place it in it's natural environment at my desired size.

Have any experiments of such been done that anyone knows of?

Thanks for reading .

Happy Gardening.

 

[MoonShadows]

It's an interesting question. I have no idea about the answer, though. I'm curious about it.
Also...

 

[Montray Davis]

It's an interesting question. I have no idea about the answer, though. I'm curious about it.
Also...View attachment 31079

Same here. It randomly came across me after seeing my Kumquat bloom pretty much year-round while my other outside trees only bloom certain parts of the year as well as lots of luscious leaf growth.

It makes me wonder if this same sort of thing would happen to deciduous trees but minus the fruit.

PS: Thanks for the welcoming back . Glad to be back.

 

[Chuck]

Dormancy is a protective means of certain plants during times of chilling weather. I can only tell you what I have noticed on my peach trees. For the past 2 years I have not had enough chilling hours for my varieties of peach. What this has done is, IMO, not a fatal thing but a possibly serious thing. Stone fruit such as peaches actually grow their next years buds during the summer and then fruit in the spring. Without enough chilling hours (temps 45F and below) the buds and in my case also, the foliage growth is affected the following year. I don't think that this will affect the trees long term health but I can't be certain of this. This year there will be more than enough chilling hours and I will have to see what 2 years of no dormancy or partial dormancy has actually done to my trees. The only thing I have noticed so far that is different is that there aren't as many leaves. I could actually see through the trees this past summer and that the leaves when they change colors in the fall are a much much more brilliant reddish orange than previous.

 

[alp]

You mean the tree has a year or two of dormancy? Can't understand how YOU can skip dormancy.. But I'm no expert. I noticed that my plum often fruit one year and then 2 year without. Sometimes, the weather also cause my fruit tree to skip fruiting. I noticed that the year with lots of snow, I have big and juicy and happy fragrant peaches. One year was so cold that I didn't see any flowers and hence no peaches at all - only one year though.

 

[Chuck]

You mean the tree has a year or two of dormancy? Can't understand how YOU can skip dormancy.. But I'm no expert. I noticed that my plum often fruit one year and then 2 year without. Sometimes, the weather also cause my fruit tree to skip fruiting. I noticed that the year with lots of snow, I have big and juicy and happy fragrant peaches. One year was so cold that I didn't see any flowers and hence no peaches at all - only one year though.

Each variety of stone fruit (peaches, plums, apricots etc) has a number of required chilling hours each year. For instance, a variety of peach called June Gold, a mid to low chilling hour peach, is 600 hours of below 45F. If it only get 300 hours it will not perform but if it gets 800 hours it will do great. The buds and foliage actually start in the summer and the chilling hours are when they fully form. If they don't get enough hours below 45F they do not form properly. And some varieties of stone fruit are called alternate bearers, meaning that they will have a large crop, with enough chilling hours, only every other year.

 

[Montray Davis]

Dormancy is a protective means of certain plants during times of chilling weather. I can only tell you what I have noticed on my peach trees. For the past 2 years I have not had enough chilling hours for my varieties of peach. What this has done is, IMO, not a fatal thing but a possibly serious thing. Stone fruit such as peaches actually grow their next years buds during the summer and then fruit in the spring. Without enough chilling hours (temps 45F and below) the buds and in my case also, the foliage growth is affected the following year. I don't think that this will affect the trees long term health but I can't be certain of this. This year there will be more than enough chilling hours and I will have to see what 2 years of no dormancy or partial dormancy has actually done to my trees. The only thing I have noticed so far that is different is that there aren't as many leaves. I could actually see through the trees this past summer and that the leaves when they change colors in the fall are a much much more brilliant reddish orange than previous.

Thanks for your reply! This is perfect.
Hopefully I remember to reach out to you in the summer to see what effects your tree experiences if any.
My assumption was sort of the same -- thinking no dormancy would probably only affect fruit short term. I hope so anyways.

You mean the tree has a year or two of dormancy? Can't understand how YOU can skip dormancy.. But I'm no expert. I noticed that my plum often fruit one year and then 2 year without. Sometimes, the weather also cause my fruit tree to skip fruiting. I noticed that the year with lots of snow, I have big and juicy and happy fragrant peaches. One year was so cold that I didn't see any flowers and hence no peaches at all - only one year though.

To skip dormancy, I just bring my tree inside under grow lights. I have a fig tree that is actively growing right now while pretty much everything outside is already dormant. ​

 

[Chuck]

Thanks for your reply! This is perfect.
Hopefully I remember to reach out to you in the summer to see what effects your tree experiences if any.
My assumption was sort of the same -- thinking no dormancy would probably only affect fruit short term. I hope so anyways.

To skip dormancy, I just bring my tree inside under grow lights. I have a fig tree that is actively growing right now while pretty much everything outside is already dormant. ​

Figs are different. They will go dormant under the correct conditions but do not require dormancy to fruit.

 

[Montray Davis]

Figs are different. They will go dormant under the correct conditions but do not require dormancy to fruit.

Thanks for this!! I've always wondered why my Fig tree seemed to go dormant really late. My fig tree in my backyard goes into what appears to be a semi-dormant stage. It has like 6 leaves that it's been holding onto all fall/winter and are just now starting to die off. Totally explains and is a great thing to know!

Does dormancy in Figs increase fruit production?

 

[MaryMary]

Montray Davis!! Good to see you!!

I'm too curious - did you ever figure out what it was that was not a kiwi? https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/this-is-not-a-kiwi.8933/


I found your question asked in a different forum - about walnut trees. It was answered by a lot of horticultural - agricultural - botany specialists, and it seems no one is really sure. I think it would be worth the experiment, but the experimenting is half the fun for me.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/what_happens_when_plants_dont_go_dormant


I also found this article from the Michigan State University Extension. I snipped bits for you, but I think you'll want to read it!

There are actually two types of dormancy during the winter. One is called endo-dormancy. In endo-dormancy, the plant will not grow even under good, warm, growing conditions. Endo is a Greek word meaning inside. In endo-dormancy, something inside the plants is inhibiting growth. The other is called eco-dormancy and occurs when the plant is ready to grow but the environmental conditions are not right, usually too cold. Endo-dormancy occurs first. Short days and freezing temperatures in the fall induce endo-dormancy in the plant. (...snip...snip...snip...) After chilling is completed the plants are no longer in endo-dormancy. They are now in eco-dormancy. The plants are dormant only because of cold or cool weather. Warmer temperatures into the mid-40s will cause them to begin growth. http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/winter_dormancy_and_chilling_in_woody_plants

I'm wondering if it might be better to let them go dormant, but then bring them inside early? Most plants accelerate their growth in the spring - instead of trying to grow them year-round, maybe they'd grow faster overall if you fool them into thinking spring is early? If the accelerated growth would outpace the slow but steady growth...?


Do you have more than one of each?

 

[alp]

I was wondering how YOU can skip dormancy! Epiphany moment! Sounds like your trees are small. I personally wouldn't want to lug my newly bought trees. They weight something. I have left them in the sunniest sheltered spots and let nature take its course.

Nice to read so much from Chuck .. so informative!

 

[Upsy Daisy]

Great thread @Montray Davis ......very ,very interesting

Good to have you back posting, and I'm with @MaryMary.....what was the mystery ' kiwi ' ?

 

[Chuck]

Thanks for this!! I've always wondered why my Fig tree seemed to go dormant really late. My fig tree in my backyard goes into what appears to be a semi-dormant stage. It has like 6 leaves that it's been holding onto all fall/winter and are just now starting to die off. Totally explains and is a great thing to know!

Does dormancy in Figs increase fruit production?

NO

 

[Montray Davis]

Great thread @Montray Davis ......very ,very interesting

Good to have you back posting, and I'm with @MaryMary.....what was the mystery ' kiwi ' ?

Montray Davis!! Good to see you!!

I'm too curious - did you ever figure out what it was that was not a kiwi? https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/this-is-not-a-kiwi.8933/

I found your question asked in a different forum - about walnut trees. It was answered by a lot of horticultural - agricultural - botany specialists, and it seems no one is really sure. I think it would be worth the experiment, but the experimenting is half the fun for me.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/what_happens_when_plants_dont_go_dormant


I also found this article from the Michigan State University Extension. I snipped bits for you, but I think you'll want to read it!





I'm wondering if it might be better to let them go dormant, but then bring them inside early? Most plants accelerate their growth in the spring - instead of trying to grow them year-round, maybe they'd grow faster overall if you fool them into thinking spring is early? If the accelerated growth would outpace the slow but steady growth...?


Do you have more than one of each?

Very interesting! Seems like I am not the only one interested in how postponing dormancy effects tree growth. Thanks!


Regarding the Kiwi thing, no, I ended up losing the plant. Somehow one day I went outside and it was just GONE..... Like someone took it or something I was pretty sad.

Not really sure what happened though at some point I was starting to almost be certain it was a cactus.!
I wish I had taken some pictures prior to ​

 

[Silentrunning]

Each variety of stone fruit (peaches, plums, apricots etc) has a number of required chilling hours each year. For instance, a variety of peach called June Gold, a mid to low chilling hour peach, is 600 hours of below 45F. If it only get 300 hours it will not perform but if it gets 800 hours it will do great. The buds and foliage actually start in the summer and the chilling hours are when they fully form. If they don't get enough hours below 45F they do not form properly. And some varieties of stone fruit are called alternate bearers, meaning that they will have a large crop, with enough chilling hours, only every other year.

@Chuck - does this hold true for apples and pears too? Do they require a certain number of chilling hours as well?