New guy with soil, chickweed and tomato questions

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Howdy I found this site the other day while trying to get a handle on some problems in my veggie garden. Things have deteriorated over the last couple years and i want to know why.

A little background, we've had a 16x24 raised bed for about 7 years and it's normally done well, but the last 2 years have been sketchy. 2 years ago we added a second plot af 12x15 at ground level, that did ok the first year then poorly last year. At this point im more focused on what's going wrong with the raised bed as i know the ground level area still needs lots of work.

I did a soil test this week and it seems my ph is on target for the majority of the desired crops at 6.5. If i used the test right we are way down on nitrogen and potassium but through the roof on phosphorus. Apparently normal fertilizer isn't going to help balance things out, any suggestions?

Chickweed is also overrunning the raised area. I pulled much of it up over the last couple weekends. In some patches its actually so dense that it almost acts like a natural weed matting. Its so far done a better job of killing off the crabgrass than i have but it also has smothered my onions from fall. Other than the onions it doesn't appear to be hurting anything and even acting like a natural mulch keeping the soil moist. What would you do?

And tomato problems. This is perhaps the most troubling thing as they have traditionally done ok with a one time phenomenal haul of over 350 pounds from plants placed around the perimeter of the 16x24 3 years ago. The last 2 years though we were barely able to get 50 pounds, an average year would fetch 100 to 150. The plants were getting diseased the last couple years, black splotches on leaves and stalks with some branches turning yellow. Spraying with an Epsom salt solution helped but it was a losing battle. Im wondering if this is a soil problem or something else?

There's more questions on the way but id rather not go into overload on my first post.
 
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Howdy I found this site the other day while trying to get a handle on some problems in my veggie garden. Things have deteriorated over the last couple years and i want to know why.

A little background, we've had a 16x24 raised bed for about 7 years and it's normally done well, but the last 2 years have been sketchy. 2 years ago we added a second plot af 12x15 at ground level, that did ok the first year then poorly last year. At this point im more focused on what's going wrong with the raised bed as i know the ground level area still needs lots of work.

I did a soil test this week and it seems my ph is on target for the majority of the desired crops at 6.5. If i used the test right we are way down on nitrogen and potassium but through the roof on phosphorus. Apparently normal fertilizer isn't going to help balance things out, any suggestions?

Chickweed is also overrunning the raised area. I pulled much of it up over the last couple weekends. In some patches its actually so dense that it almost acts like a natural weed matting. Its so far done a better job of killing off the crabgrass than i have but it also has smothered my onions from fall. Other than the onions it doesn't appear to be hurting anything and even acting like a natural mulch keeping the soil moist. What would you do?

And tomato problems. This is perhaps the most troubling thing as they have traditionally done ok with a one time phenomenal haul of over 350 pounds from plants placed around the perimeter of the 16x24 3 years ago. The last 2 years though we were barely able to get 50 pounds, an average year would fetch 100 to 150. The plants were getting diseased the last couple years, black splotches on leaves and stalks with some branches turning yellow. Spraying with an Epsom salt solution helped but it was a losing battle. Im wondering if this is a soil problem or something else?

There's more questions on the way but id rather not go into overload on my first post.
About soil tests. They are a good thing, as far as letting you know what the Ph is and what the makeup of the soil is. However, in most cases they only tell you how much NPK is there in the soil. They DO NOT tell you how much NPK is available for takeup by the plants. So, make of this what you will.
About the chickweed. I would get rid of it. The safest way I know of to do this is by spraying numerous applications of a vinegar/orange oil/dishsoap mixture.
Now for the tomatoes. Have you turned over or tilled the entire raised bed? What fertilizer do you use? Have you added organic matter to the soil? The black blotches are a fungus and Epsom Salt is not a fungicide nor does it have any nutritional value. What it does is help with the plants ability to uptake nutrients, mainly calcium.
What I would recommend that you do is this. Use only organic fertilizers and use them copiously. Till in a lot of compost to the soil. Add a handful of Epsom Soil to the tomatoes at planting time around the base of the plant. On all of your plants, after they are up and growing, sprinkle horticultural cornmeal over the entire garden. This will greatly help in reducing any fungal problems.
 
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Of all the weeds, chickweed is one of my least favorite and I even pull much of it up (you have to know me, I love many of my weeds:love:). On the positive side, at least in my area, chickweed is gone by mid-spring -- it can't tolerate the heat; and of course it's edible, so I do eat some in my salads, soups and sandwiches...

As for soil tests, I don't see a need, but if I did, I think I'd only go for professional tests, not any of the test kits available at stores or online. My secret to great soil is adding tons of organic matter, such as woodchips and leaves and compost. I chop and drop and don't disturb soil by ripping out plants -- I cut it down to soil level and allow the roots to become soil.

This is a very interesting test on garden test kits (one of the better home-test kits) and he compared the results with a professional test.

 
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Sounds like all you need is a good layer of rich compost. Commercial liquid and crystallized fertilizers are short acting and leave you with unbalanced nutrients when the season is over. More natural nutrients will be better.
 
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Trying to answer some of your questions...

As far as fertilizer, i have been adding manure every other year, the only chemicals I've used so far have been Miracle Gro once a week, some 7dust to take care of cabbage worms and last year a weed killer on the crabgrass that wasn't near other plants. Oh and i did try a fungicide on the tomato plants with mixed results. I think i imported the chickweed in the last batch of manure.

Im not an organic gardener by any means. I use the manure because I can get truck and trailer loads pretty easily. Im not against man made stuff if it helps me out.

I have not yet tilled the soil this year, just getting started on my preparation. I figured if i have to add things during tilling I would like to figure that out first.

Epsom Soil?

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to get hot enough here to really slow down the chickweed so I can't wait for it to die off. As for spraying it, would you do that after pulling as much as possible? Is this mixture harmful to my other plants? Ill be starting mostly from seed except for the onions, garlic, potatoes and cabbage which have wintered and are starting to grow already. Is there a long term fix for the chickweed? I didn't have any until a couple years ago.

About the horticultural cornmeal, how different is that from regular cornmeal? I can get that for nearly free.
 
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Trying to answer some of your questions...

As far as fertilizer, i have been adding manure every other year, the only chemicals I've used so far have been Miracle Gro once a week, some 7dust to take care of cabbage worms and last year a weed killer on the crabgrass that wasn't near other plants. Oh and i did try a fungicide on the tomato plants with mixed results. I think i imported the chickweed in the last batch of manure.

Im not an organic gardener by any means. I use the manure because I can get truck and trailer loads pretty easily. Im not against man made stuff if it helps me out.

I have not yet tilled the soil this year, just getting started on my preparation. I figured if i have to add things during tilling I would like to figure that out first.

Epsom Soil?

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to get hot enough here to really slow down the chickweed so I can't wait for it to die off. As for spraying it, would you do that after pulling as much as possible? Is this mixture harmful to my other plants? Ill be starting mostly from seed except for the onions, garlic, potatoes and cabbage which have wintered and are starting to grow already. Is there a long term fix for the chickweed? I didn't have any until a couple years ago.

About the horticultural cornmeal, how different is that from regular cornmeal? I can get that for nearly free.
Sorry about the Epsom Soil, (salt) a typo error. Manure once every 2 years is not nearly enough and Miracle Gro or any chemical fertilizer only feeds the plant, not the soil. Your soil is depleted of micro-organisms, the very thing that chemical fertilizers help destroy. These same organisms are the main reason you had a successful first year and a big decline ever since.
Manures can be, but are not always a good fertilizer. Manures vary as to how good they are. For instance, take two cow manures from two different locations and they will be a lot different. A good fertilizer is a balanced mix of nutrients, not just NPK but minerals as well. Minerals are almost as important as NPK but manures are a great additive. Different fungi and bacterias are also very important in a plants ability to uptake nutrients and chemical fertilizers destroy them too.
If you are going to spend money on fertilizers spend it on a fertilizer that benefits your garden, not a fertilizer that has diminishing returns for your plants and is a detriment to your soil.
Horticultural versus grocery store cornmeal. What you normally think of as cornmeal you get from the grocery store has been "Enriched". When it says enriched it means that the hard outside portion of the corn kernel has been polished away and this is the most nutritional part of the corn. This is not what you want, you want a cornmeal that has not been enriched. If it says enriched anywhere on the package you don't want it for your garden. You can get non-enriched cornmeal at the store and it is called either Hard Ground or Stone Ground Cornmeal. This is what you want for your garden. At the nursery it is not food grade but it is the same thing and it is called horticultural cornmeal. You can also get it at feed stores. This cornmeal doesn't do a thing for plants. What is does do is provide the best growing medium for a beneficial fungi called Trichoderma. This fungi literally eats harmful fungi.

You can kill the chickweed with vinegar/orange oil/dishsoap. It will also kill everything else it is sprayed on too so be careful.
The long term fix for any type of imported weed is to not import it. It probably did come from that manure. If you are going to keep using the manure you should compost it first and this will get rid of the seeds but it will take 6 months or so.
 

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When I read the op's post, it read to me like a treatise on the effects of failing to rotate crops and use cover crops to replenish the soil. It is a problem easily fixable but requires some time and effort.

You asked "What would you do? "

1) Learn about crop rotations. You can not continuously harvest the same veggies from the same soil location without significant soil replenishment. Artificial fertilizer is NOT replenishment. There are entire books on this subject and I could write one myself...but can not give a you a 30 second answer. Do your home work!

2) Learn about cover crops. Your soil desperately needs replenishment. It also is crying out for weed protection.

That isn't going to come from a bag of stuff you get at the local box store and throw on your soil. Again, books have been written on this. I have practiced it myself for over 40 years on the same exact garden soil. It absolutely works!! To delve into it requires much more than one or two sentences or paragraphs on a garden forum. Do your home work!! You might search for some of my past posts on this forum to get an idea of what you need to do.
 
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Ok, getting some good focused information, thanks.

There seems to be a little confusion about the time line of this story. The plot in question has been in place for 7 years or so. I bring in manure every other year. The huge tomato harvest was actually an off year and problems started the next year and batch of manure.

Unfortunately I don't have a place to let the manure compost, and I certainly can't leave it in the truck for 6 months. I'll have to see if I can coordinate with my supplier to see about getting aged manure.

Ill keep my eyes open on the cornmeal and what my sources carry. But i can get it for about 25 cents a pound, they don't distinguish between grades.

Regarding crop rotation, i have been trying to perform it. My typical start of the season involves mowing the weeds and grass, then tilling the entire plot, adding manure every other year. The tilled soil then gets redistributed into growing mounds with foot paths for access. Realizing that this method doesn't move every cubic foot to a different location I do try to plant things in different spots each year. This has worked successfully for several years, just the last two have been problematic.

Now cover crops is new to me, would this be something that can be harvested or is it considered a throw away crop?
 
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Huh. So as I'm researching cover crops it appears that I did plant one. Purely on a whim after harvesting beets, I decided to see what seeds were still available to throw down and see if anything came up before winter.

I found turnips and tossed the seeds into areas that i had picked clean. Literally tossed, no digging, no raking nothing. Lo and behold, I've had turnips all winter long and still do. I actually picked a few a couple weeks ago and transplanted the rest into their own area. I expect them to go to seed shortly.

Might explain why my garlic is doing well this year.

Which brings up the question, would beets make a good cover crop?
 
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So the battle with chickweed continues but i made a couple discoveries. It had gotten so dense and tangled that I was able to get under the tangled roots and rolled it up like sod. It of course took a layer of dirt with it.

The other thing i noticed was that while it would feel its way around my cabbages, it didn't root near them. Its also stayed clear of the horseradish and didn't seem to care for the turnips either.

Is chickweed afraid of brassica?
 
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So the battle with chickweed continues but i made a couple discoveries. It had gotten so dense and tangled that I was able to get under the tangled roots and rolled it up like sod. It of course took a layer of dirt with it.

The other thing i noticed was that while it would feel its way around my cabbages, it didn't root near them. Its also stayed clear of the horseradish and didn't seem to care for the turnips either.


Is chickweed afraid of brassica?
I've noticed that with my brassica plants, a lot of things kind of stays away from them.
 
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Just an update, I've moved ahead with the garden trying to implement the above advice or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

To wit, since i don't have compost, i added a truckload of forest litter and a couple weeks of grass clippings. I also found the cornmeal on sale for $1.25 for a 20 pound bag. This got tilled in, plants and seeds went in and a layer of grass clippings as mulch. So far so good.

Extra grass clippings are being distributed throughout the garden by placing it in the walkway. They can be tilled in later.

I've put in many more beans than normal, bought extra seed for second or third planting and of course the cover crop, using mustard and turnips. Speaking of the beans, im companion planting them with most of the crops and trying them in a 3 sister arrangement, but not corn and squash. I'm using beans and cabbages as 2 parts of the arrangement, planting those with tomatoes and pickles. The thought is that the beans provide nitrogen which the leafy plants like, and the cabbage can provide their antifungal and seeming anti weed properties. We'll see how this goes but so far promising.

And to emphasize your observations about soil conditions, i have a couple planters on the front stoop with some Hillbilly tomato, cabbage and onion sets. This wss originally done as a way to control the watering of the tomatoes, hillbilly seems to be very sensitive to steady watering. The planters were filled with purchased topsoil and peat moss. Even with less sun exposure and less water than the plants in the garden, the tomatoes are already double in size of the garden plants, and about 4 times what was planted.

Here's hoping i can get ripe Hillbillies as opposed to large ones that would split and rot before ripening.

Question on the extra grass clippings, can I take fresh clippings and pile them on weeds that are sprouting in order to smother them? So far the weeds are minimal other than in the allium bed which has other crops growing in it, dill and cilantro. This section will be weeded by hand for now. Ill reevaluate after harvesting the garlic which should happen in the next few weeks.
 

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….can I take fresh clippings and pile them on weeds that are sprouting in order to smother them? ...

Yes, but recognize as they decay the green grass clippings may absorb some N2 from the top soil, but will replenish it as it composts/decays. Your Companion planting is excellent and you will see benefits this year and as time goes forward.
Good work!
 
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Good news on the grass thing. I was hoping that would be acceptable as a very targeted weed killer with minimal side effects.

I've also looked into using fresh clippings as a side dressing but see mixed reviews, mostly claiming its too fresh and hot. I might try it with a couple of plants as more seeds sprout, not everything has sprouted yet and I'm leery of over mulching just now.
 

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