Need advice with our soil

[GooseDad]

Hello to all, thanks for having us'
Everything on the farm is composted. We have a dump truck load. We recently had a comprehensive test and as it stands has real issues.
To get a true picture of the issues, it would be necessary to upload the findings and recommendations.
If the community is interested I'll proceed . Happy Trails

 

[Meadowlark]

Welcome @GooseDad ...Proceed.

 

[GooseDad]

Great, Thanks.
Here's the summary and recommendations. Incorporating Peat Moss ought to both lower the overall pH without adding Potassium ?
We have a large tumbler which should aid in through mixing.
The objective is to build a living soil. As it stands now, there is very little visible life such as bugs, worms etc. in the pile.

Agronomists Summary
The soil needs more calcium. That's the main priority. Gypsum is the key
amendment to achieve that goal.
I'm also recommending a little more nitrogen in the form of three different N
amendments with varying release rates.
I'm also recommending reducing your soil pH with elemental sulfur. Only apply
this if you can thoroughly incorporate it homogenously into your soil.
Solubor is optional, and should only be applied in very small quantities.

I'll also add that zinc levels are very elevated. Do not apply any more zinc of any
kind!

General Notes

Your total available nutrient level is moderately low. Significant nutrient application is
suggested either through mineral amendments or feeding through the cycle.

Your pH is very high. Apply all trace minerals through foliar.

Bicarbonates are elevated. This is likely from your irrigation water, especially if using well water.
Get an irrigation water test to identify the source of bicarbonates. If high, steps can be taken to

reduce them to prevent nutrient antagonism.

Do not apply any more potassium until levels are reduced.
Estimated Soil Solution EC (Full Saturation) = 0.83

Re-Amendment Recommendations

Soil Amendment Quantity Required Per Cubic Yard of Soil Volume Approximate Lbs/Yd3
Alfalfa Meal 9.51 cups 3.19

Gypsum 3.98 cups 1.86

There is no maximum application rate for gypsum. To push calcium, our suggested rate is 15 cups/yd3 (7 lbs/yd3).

Elemental Sulfur 3.00 cups 1.89

Apply after plants are harvested. Incorporate through the entire soil volume, not just the surface.

Granular Poultry 2.89 cups 1.00

Blood Meal 1.01 cups 0.31

Solubor (21%) 0.53 teaspoons 0.003

Dissolve powdered product in water with humic acid or molasses and spray or drench soil for even distribution. Alternatively, use Borax at 2x the rate of Solubor.

 

[GooseDad]

Soil& Saturated paste

 

[Meadowlark]

Looks like you have some work to do...but soil building is the key to successful gardening.

Do you have specific questions regarding the recommendations?

 

[Ostrodamus]

Looks like you have some work to do...but soil building is the key to successful gardening.

Do you have specific questions regarding the recommendations?

I agree, this is a mess but workable. Necessary steps need to be taken, or you will waste time with little to show for your extreme efforts. What exactly are the concerns? Are you wondering if ALL of this technical mumbo jumbo is necessary, or if you can "fix" it with lesser or more natural methods?

 

[GooseDad]

Thanks to All:
Firstly, this was a real wake-up call for us. If it looks like dirt, smells like dirt, doesn't necessarily mean it's good soil. Even though we composted right, without a comprehensive soil test we had no idea what we had.
This soil grew vegi's and herbs albeit we constantly were chasing problems.
Moving along... Both respondents agree that we have a mess, but workable.
My question, if this was your soil what would you do? Please be specific. Thanks

 

[Meadowlark]

What I would do.

1) follow the recommendations of the agronomist as best you can.

2) Address this with priority: "Your total available nutrient level is moderately low." My approach would be to:

A) add composted cow manure (or whatever animal manure is readily available and free of any residual herbicides),

B) plant legumes that you can turn under into the soil as green manure. Candidates such as field peas, alfalfa, clovers, vetch, cereal rye, etc. and

C) make extensive use of cover crops. Candidates include the legumes, turnips, daikon radish, etc. Suggest you consider the use of Sunn Hemp for a soil builder. It requires about 12 weeks of consistent hot weather which you have in Missouri. This variety has the best nitrogen fixing ability of any plant I have ever used. Incredible growth to add nutrients to your soil. Cover crops aren't just for winter on the contrary the best soil nutrient building can often be accomplished in summer, e.g. Sunn Hemp.

3) Treat your soil as an investment...constantly growing something year around, rotating plantings with soil building varieties as mentioned above, and adding quality compost.

That is what I would do.

 

[GooseDad]

Thank you. Doesn't look like we'll be doing much gardening this year til the soil gets right.

 

[Martin Mikulcik]

Interesting

Is this test the garden soil or is it your compost heap or is that the same thing

The pH is 8! I didn't know soil like that was in Missouri unless man made especially with a calcium deficiency (which btw your calcium levels aren't really low so you don't need to worry too much about adding gypsum, or boron). They're upselling you a little on the potential benefits. If you're having problems the pH is the major factor.
It's just kind of hard to believe unless you've been fertilizing with baking soda or maybe high levels of ashes

Just add sulfur and probably some nitrogen and you'll be good. No need to put off gardening. Sulfur reacts quickly so it would be best to be able to check pH a day after a rain and reassess but imo it's not necessary. You probably have enough buffering capacity that you won't go overboard but if you were growing in pure sand or something it's easy to overdo.

Let us know how you make out

 

[GooseDad]

Both. Native soil in our area lousy. We heat with wood and I have added ash to the heap, not much but we always fold it into the pile, along with the soil used during gardening in the Fall.
The soil when saturated is very dense and doesn't drain well, even with the addition of 20% perlite Would you recommend adding peat moss? It has a low pH and might also loosen the structure.
We grow primarily in large fabric pots, with some raised beds holding strawberries and asparagus which are needing a top dressing. How much Sulfur would you advise per gallon of soil?
Any thoughts about type and amount of nitrogen per gallon would be appreciated. I've been trying to make calculations on amounts the Soil Doctor recommended - converting yd3 to gallons.
We really appreciate the interest and advice from the community... keep it coming. Happy Trails!!

 

[Meadowlark]

As you may be aware wood ash is a ph increaser counter to your needs.

Elementa sulfur works slowly and I've found that checking ph frequently is required when applying it to reduce alkalinity.

Perhaps you would find this response from my AI useful:

Core Rule of Thumb (per 100 sq ft, 6" depth)

These values reflect how much elemental sulfur is typically needed to reduce soil pH by 1.0 unit:

• Sandy soil — 1 lb sulfur
• Loam soil — 1.5–2 lb sulfur
• Clay soil — 2–3 lb sulfur

Because clay holds alkalinity more strongly, it takes more sulfur to shift pH.

Converting to “Gallons of Soil”

Gardeners often use container volumes, so here’s the equivalent rule of thumb:

A 6-inch soil depth over 100 sq ft equals about 2 cubic yards, or ~400 gallons of soil.

Using that conversion:

To lower pH by 1.0 point:

• Sandy soil — ~1 lb sulfur per 400 gallons → 0.0025 lb (1.1 g) per gallon
• Loam soil — ~1.5–2 lb per 400 gallons → 0.0037–0.005 lb (1.7–2.3 g) per gallon
• Clay soil — ~2–3 lb per 400 gallons → 0.005–0.0075 lb (2.3–3.4 g) per gallon

These are approximate because sulfur works biologically, not chemically.

The Sunn Hemp I mentioned above adds up to 150 lbs per acre of nitrogen. Generally, I find other legumes can add up to 100 lbs per acre but not as reliably.

 

[Meadowlark]

Probably the most common response I get when I share with folks the results I get with the techniques I have mentioned in this thread is that..."well that sounds good, but I use small spaces".

Well, I also use small spaces...containers and apply my techniques there just fine.

You might find this thread interesting. It is a demonstration of applying my techniques to containers. In six weeks, validated by soil tests, I regenerated the soil in a container that had nitrogen depleted to unusable levels to levels suitable for gardening any veggie.... without any synthetic fertilizers.

You have to wade through some extraneous posts, but the soil tests presented there do NOT lie. Anyone can do this and duplicate my results.

Small scale demonstration of biodynamic farming, soil replenishment, cover cropping, crop rotation, permaculture, polyculture, and organic gardening

No worries. Nothing more anoying than someone banging on endlessly about their pet project and inserting it into every thread going. My bad xx LOL

www.gardening-forums.com

 

[Martin Mikulcik]

---

Peat moss won't hurt, but depends how much you value your money whether its worth it

Fabric pots do very well even with heavy soil, if you're interested in making your own to save a buck i did a tutorial

Make your own high quality fabric pots (propagation forum at permies)

Fabric pots have significant advantages over hard plastic, particularly in large sizes, namely:. And your done, enjoy the best pots for large plants you're ever going to use.

permies.com

Still can't hardly believe your average pH is 8. Is it possible you hit a spot of ashes when you took the sample

Organic matter goes a long ways to loosen heavy soil and @Meadowlark 's strategy compliments that well. Sunn hemp, Alfalfa, clover, cowpeas are other options

You want the organic matter decomposed a little or it will break the capillaries in the soil, like don't add straight leaves to pots. On top is perfectly fine.

If you want to use synthetics, urea is cheap and easy to get

If the weeds aren't growing that's a bad sign

 

[Ostrodamus]

There's really nothing different I can add here, but I agree with all of the above. Also, an avg pH of 8 is wild, and I also tend to think you hit an ash pocket during sampling. This won't tank your season but like you said before, you'll likely be chasing some problems until its rectified.

For what it's worth, I built a few different gardens from terrible "unplantable" dirt, to thriving living soil ecosystems. The first few times was with amendments (ALL THE BAGS OF ALL THE THINGS) because I was impatient and figured I'd speedrun nature. It worked ok, but it was co$tly and I had to create spreadsheets of everything just to keep track of which beds got which and what and when. The last time though, I used cover crops (clover, pea & oat) and nitrogen fixers (beans, beans, the magical fruit) with much better results, for a fraction of the effort and cost.

Ya see, I'm a prior service member, and we learn a lot of military history along the way. I pulled my methods from the WW2 island hopping campaign days, when they had to rehab destroyed islands very quickly to produce food for troops. Green manure, all the way. Good luck.