How to renew the lawn?

[Pypes]

My lawn has lots of weed: moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell and more. I almost didn't look after it for years and there is much more weed around than lawn gras. Now, I would like to renew it and get a nice, fluffy green. But how?

Part of the problem is that my soil is really high-clay loam. When it rains heavily, I have puddles on the lawn, and when it gets hot and dry, the soil becomes hard as concrete. So, not enough oxygene is getting to the roots. In the garden beds I started amending the soil with cheap un-washed sand delivered in cubic meters. I am thinking of doing the same to the lawn's soil. I would spread the sand and use a tiller once, then spread some manure and/or compost and work it in with a rake. Finally, I would sow grass, keep it moist, mow it regularly and also provide some fertilizer in the future.

I suspect that this method would finally suppress quite some of the weeds. But I am afraid that at least couch grass would survive and stay strong and spread new seed even before the new sown grass has developed and I could first time mow. Probably also clover would survive and possibly more weed species.

I have one sheet of lightproof liner and am not motivated to buy sheets for 250 square meters of lawn. Applying the liner section by section over multiple years is also not an option. And actually, I am reading that the lightproof liner would need to be applied an entire season to get rid of couch grass - also not my deepest desire.

So, how do you guys advise that I renew my lawn? Thanks for your hints!

 

[cpp gardener]

I’m sure you don’t want to hear this, but I’m going to say it anyway. Glyphosate is your best bet to eliminate your weeds, even the Couchgrass. It may take several applications, but it will work. As long as you don’t drink the stuff you’ll be fine.

The main thing you DON’T want to do is add sand. Sand added to clay equals REALLY hard concrete. Add compost and gypsum to open the soil for better air and water penetration. Use a tiller to thoroughly mix them in. Expect lots of weeds to sprout from buried seeds newly exposed to light and be ready with appropriate herbicides. There is a reason lawns are the source of fertilizer and herbicide contamination. At least if you want a “perfect fluffy green” one. The rest of your plan sounds good.

 

[Nasir]

My lawn has lots of weed: moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell and more. I almost didn't look after it for years and there is much more weed around than lawn gras. Now, I would like to renew it and get a nice, fluffy green. But how?

Part of the problem is that my soil is really high-clay loam. When it rains heavily, I have puddles on the lawn, and when it gets hot and dry, the soil becomes hard as concrete. So, not enough oxygene is getting to the roots. In the garden beds I started amending the soil with cheap un-washed sand delivered in cubic meters. I am thinking of doing the same to the lawn's soil. I would spread the sand and use a tiller once, then spread some manure and/or compost and work it in with a rake. Finally, I would sow grass, keep it moist, mow it regularly and also provide some fertilizer in the future.

I suspect that this method would finally suppress quite some of the weeds. But I am afraid that at least couch grass would survive and stay strong and spread new seed even before the new sown grass has developed and I could first time mow. Probably also clover would survive and possibly more weed species.

I have one sheet of lightproof liner and am not motivated to buy sheets for 250 square meters of lawn. Applying the liner section by section over multiple years is also not an option. And actually, I am reading that the lightproof liner would need to be applied an entire season to get rid of couch grass - also not my deepest desire.

So, how do you guys advise that I renew my lawn? Thanks for your hints!

Renewing a lawn that has been overtaken by weeds can be a daunting task, but with the right approach, it is definitely possible to achieve a healthy, lush lawn. Here are some steps that you can follow:

1. Soil preparation: As you've already identified, your soil is high in clay, which can make it difficult for water and air to penetrate the soil, leading to poor root growth. Amending the soil with sand, as you've mentioned, can help to improve drainage and aeration. However, it's important to choose a high-quality, washed sand rather than a cheap, un-washed sand, which can contain harmful materials such as salts and silt. You can also add compost or well-rotted manure to improve the soil structure and nutrient content.

2. Weed control: While the soil is being prepared, it's important to control the existing weeds. If the weed infestation is severe, you may need to use a systemic herbicide to kill the weeds before you begin preparing the soil. Make sure to choose a herbicide that is labeled for the specific types of weeds you are trying to control, and follow the instructions carefully.

3. Grass selection: Once the soil is prepared, it's time to choose the right type of grass for your area. You'll want to select a variety that is well-suited to your climate and soil type. If you're not sure which type of grass to choose, you can contact a local lawn care professional or your local extension service for advice.

4. Seeding and fertilizing: Spread the grass seed evenly over the prepared soil, and then cover it with a light layer of compost or straw to help retain moisture. Water the lawn regularly to keep the soil moist, but not waterlogged. Once the grass has started to grow, you can apply a slow-release fertilizer to encourage healthy growth and development.

5. Maintenance: As the new grass starts to grow, it's important to mow it regularly to encourage thick, healthy growth. Keep the grass height at around 2-3 inches, and make sure that the blades on your mower are sharp to avoid tearing the grass. Water the lawn as needed, but be careful not to over-water, as this can lead to shallow root growth and increased susceptibility to disease.

It's important to remember that even with the best lawn care practices, some weeds may still be present in your lawn. However, by following these steps, you can help to reduce the weed infestation and promote the growth of healthy grass. It's also important to maintain a regular lawn care schedule, including regular mowing, watering, and fertilization, to keep your lawn looking its best.

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[Pypes]

Make sure to choose a herbicide that is labeled for the specific types of weeds you are trying to control

Hi Nasir, thanks for all your detailed advice!
Picking the right herbicide seems to become a challenge. On a first glance I can't find a product that covers my entire long list of weeds.
But I also expect that some weeds will just be suppressed by the lawn gras if I regularly mow, water, fertilize (and aerate). So the question is which weeds on my list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell ) will not be outperformed by the new gras when I apply the proper schedule?
My guessing was that couch grass and clover would never be suppressed by optimum mowing, watering and fertilizing for grass. What other species on my list do I need to kill using herbicide?

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Glyphosate does really kill everything I have come across, though it takes more than one go to get some really tough ones.

I have clay and find sand is heavy, it sinks and doesn't help that much. I burn clay to terracotta every time I use the incinerator, it is lightweight and does the job much better, but of course I only produce a small quantity, like a couple of buckets, each time, if you found a way to do it in volume it would work great, it doesn't just add to to the clay, it uses it up at the same time, and the ash is also a good addition.
When I do use sand for potting cuttings I buy it in sacks unwashed, cut the top off and leave the sack open. When it has filled with rain I make a few holes in the bottom and let it drain; washed sand. I usually stay a sack or two in front so even more rain runs through, they sit on the concrete where they will run off into the drain.

 

[Nasir]

Hi Nasir, thanks for all your detailed advice!
Picking the right herbicide seems to become a challenge. On a first glance I can't find a product that covers my entire long list of weeds.
But I also expect that some weeds will just be suppressed by the lawn gras if I regularly mow, water, fertilize (and aerate). So the question is which weeds on my list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell ) will not be outperformed by the new gras when I apply the proper schedule?
My guessing was that couch grass and clover would never be suppressed by optimum mowing, watering and fertilizing for grass. What other species on my list do I need to kill using herbicide?

I am happy to help you out.

 

[Pypes]

Sand added to clay equals REALLY hard concrete.

Thank you cpp gardener!
From my personal experience that one is not correct. Loam is a mixture of clay, silt and sand at different percentages - while one or two of the three parts can tend to 0%. My original loam is very high in clay.
In a larger bed I mixed in 1.5 cubic meters of sand, about 50 to 60 cm deep, i.e. up to where the rocky under soil starts. I added around 15% sand and 5% silt (as the sand was unwashed), roughly. But even after this amendment I am still in the USDA texture class "clay" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SoilTexture_USDA.svg), not sandy clay, or clay loam or silty clay. However, the amendment did make a difference. I can clearly say that since I made this change the soil behaves different:
- Even with heavy rain I am not anymore getting puddles and, when stepping into the bed after rain, I am not anymore having the most terrible mud of completely waterlogged soil on my boots and the wheelbarrow wheel
- The soil dries out a bit quicker and I need to water a little earlier
- The soil does not get as hard ("concrete") anymore in a draught period - I can easier enter the soil using the rose fork or the two-prongs hand weeding tool, and the soil separates better from the weed roots

 

[Pypes]

I burn clay to terracotta every time I use the incinerator

Hi Oliver, you mean to say, instead of applying (silty) sand to my high-clay loam, I should burn clay to get terracotta and dispense this on my soil? What are the ergonomics (and the environmental footprint) of your process? Would it perhaps be cheaper (and burn less energy) if purchasing industrially manufactured LECA? In Germany you can get 4-8mm LECA for 410 EUR per cubic meter, delivery included. The unwashed sand I recently purchased cost 100 CHF and delivery cost 70 CHF from the close-by gravel quarry. Although everything is double the cost in Switzerland compared to other Western European countries this is still considerably cheaper than LECA in Germany. But of course LECA would be more beneficial. I thought crushed terracotta, as used for greened flat roofs, would be cheaper than LECA. But that is not the case. 8-16 mm crushed terracotta is available in Germany at 364 EUR per ton which is 550 EUR per cubic meter.

 

[Pypes]

I am happy to help you out.

Maybe I was not clear: Which weeds on my list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell ) will not be outperformed by the properly supported new gras and hence I need a herbicide to kill it specifically?

 

[Nasir]

Maybe I was not clear: Which weeds on my list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell ) will not be outperformed by the properly supported new gras and hence I need a herbicide to kill it specifically?

​

Herbicide for Grass Weeds.​

I apologize for the misunderstanding. To answer your question, all of the weeds on your list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell) have the potential to outcompete newly established grass if they are not properly controlled. This is because weeds have the ability to quickly spread and steal nutrients and water from grass, which can stunt its growth and prevent it from becoming well-established.
While using herbicides can be an effective way to control weeds, it's important to note that there are different types of herbicides that are effective on different types of weeds. Some herbicides are selective and target specific types of weeds, while others are non-selective and will kill any plant they come in contact with.
Before using any herbicides, it's important to identify the types of weeds that are present in your lawn and choose an appropriate herbicide that will effectively control them without harming your grass. It's also important to follow the instructions on the herbicide label carefully to ensure safe and effective use.

 

[mac1911]

Maybe I was not clear: Which weeds on my list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell ) will not be outperformed by the properly supported new gras and hence I need a herbicide to kill it specifically?

Sometimes it pays to have a professional come in.
Here in the state of Massachusetts there are so many products that need licensing just to buy. Your typical products available to us peasants although do work somewhat they are no where as effective as commercial products. Several of the weeds you listed are inductive to poor soil or lets say soil conditions that benefit them vs your lawn of choice.
What do you intend to replace the old lawn with?
Alot also comes down to expense. My neighbor had a crew come in march 2022 and basically stripped the top 4” off his yard.
Applied pre emergent to the soil. Then had some nice loamy/compost delivered and spread. Another pre emergent.
He spent the summer controlling any growth and leveling and fixing any issues , amending the soil as needed. We have low PH naturally here. Come fall he planted some TTTF blend. With the great fall weather we had and a very mild winter his lawn looks great.
I have spent the last few seasons 2019 trying to revive my lawn myself. Its a slow process when on a tight budget.
Only after getting my soil PH up and correcting some deficiencies did my lawn come back to its once great condition.

I learned over the past few years I was only putting enough lime down to maintain the old PH level
So I wasted time and money maintaining a low PH , argh.
Also learned the weed control in one of the products I used was in such small percentage it only killed back the leaves , dandelions r specially.
Now crab grass.
Oh boy thats the demon in this area. I manually remove so much crab grass , dallygrass, barngrass and what ever other names they give to these types of “feed” grasses. Comes in with poorly composted compost.
Last 3 season I have had the weeds under control with a few methods
Pre emergent- then a herbicide for the stuff that comes through , manual removal and keeping my grass cut height at 4+”, my mower is set to its highest setting.
This and mulch mowing has shown a lot of improvement in my lawn.
Oh and I have been re seeding with draught tolerant blends over the years
Here we have Lesco Products
Local distributor is great.
I use Lesco All Pro Team Select for seed.

As for hard clay soil , my area is generally 4-6” sand then rocky clay. For a few years I planted winter rye and tilled it into area which is now my garden.

 

[mac1911]

​

Herbicide for Grass Weeds.​

I apologize for the misunderstanding. To answer your question, all of the weeds on your list (moss, clover, dandelion, couch grass, crabgrass, goutweed, daisy, thistle, plantain, speedwell) have the potential to outcompete newly established grass if they are not properly controlled. This is because weeds have the ability to quickly spread and steal nutrients and water from grass, which can stunt its growth and prevent it from becoming well-established.
While using herbicides can be an effective way to control weeds, it's important to note that there are different types of herbicides that are effective on different types of weeds. Some herbicides are selective and target specific types of weeds, while others are non-selective and will kill any plant they come in contact with.
Before using any herbicides, it's important to identify the types of weeds that are present in your lawn and choose an appropriate herbicide that will effectively control them without harming your grass. It's also important to follow the instructions on the herbicide label carefully to ensure safe and effective use.

I had some sort of “feed grass” that the local lawn care specialist called barnyard grass. Anyway nothing I could by touched that stuff. In the end manual removal has been the only way. Thank fully its located in one area( where I had some fill come in) it shows its face long before it seeds and is short rooted.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I only do it when I have enough rubbish to make a fire with, stuff I would burn anyway, so I have never counted the cost. Of curse I only get a couple of buckets full at a time, but it builds up over time.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I used lawn sand on the moss in my lawn, it kills it and it turns black, then you can rake it out. As I remember the active ingredient is a compound of chlorine and iron, I think maybe the chlorate rather than chloride, but I wouldn't swear to it.

 

[cpp gardener]

mac1911 and Pypes are talking about two different approaches to the same problem. Mac is going the ‘work with what you’ve got’ route and Pypes is going the ‘start over and change’ route. These call for different herbicide choices. Pypes‘ method needs selective herbicides to kill some weeds, while Mac needs a ‘nuking’, non-selective herbicide like glyphosate. mac’s method doesn’t use any amendments to the soil, just chemistry adjustment.
The choice depends on how much time and money you want to spend. Pypes spends more time, while mac spends more money.