Energy Self Sufficiency - Anyone Going Down this Route?

[Susan BBPM]

I'm looking to exchange ideas with anyone trying to develop energy self-sufficiency.

We did a DIY woodburner install last year and built wood stores and purchased enough wood for two years. We're also collecting wood for free and seasoning it.

This autumn we installed solar panels on our wood stores and purchased solar generators. That's working extremely well too.

We're now wondering whether it's viable to have a domestic wind turbine to fill the gaps when there's no sun.

 

[DirtMechanic]

It is not really possible, so no. I move more in the arena of reducing electric load or losing warmed air in the winter or heat gain in the summer. Just moving to proper LED lighting at my stores and the house has been worth 300 dollars a month or more, but really because of the inflationary system, it works out to be prices I paid or paid a decade ago.

 

[Susan BBPM]

It is not really possible, so no. I move more in the arena of reducing electric load or losing warmed air in the winter or heat gain in the summer. Just moving to proper LED lighting at my stores and the house has been worth 300 dollars a month or more, but really because of the inflationary system, it works out to be prices I paid or paid a decade ago.

That's what we thought (not possible) but energy costs have gone SO high in the UK that we revisited. Aside from the eyewatering energy costs moving forwards there's the issue of high inflation - savings in the bank are being wiped out rapidly. So it made sense to me to get savings out of the bank, and invested in things that you'd otherwise need to spend money on further down the line.

Currently inflation is 10% here. If I have £10k in the bank now, it'll only be worth £9k in a year's time. I think there's a HUGE risk that inflation will go much higher, pretty much wiping out savings.

Third issue is that they're predicting rolling power outages for the winter (due to Russian Gas no longer available to Europe).

I would estimate that we spent a total of £10k on a woodburning stove, 2 years supply of seasoned wood (which interestingly has more than DOUBLED in price since then), 2kw solar array and solar generators providing 7kw of energy storage. Due to inflation, if we'd left that £10k in the bank it would now only be worth £9k. We're collecting free wood and seasoning it ourselves so there should be no further wood costs moving forwards. We did all of the installation ourselves, so should be able to maintain it ourselves too - we know how it all works.

Typical annual energy cost would currently be around £2,500 per year (gas and electric combined). This is being frozen for 2 years in the UK, but will likely rise in year 3.

Despite us not having much sun in Scotland our solar system produces more energy than we can use for 6 months of the year. It runs the entire house AND provides enough to heat the water using electric. So for 6 months gas and mains electric usage is completely eliminated. We also mop up the excess by running a dehumidifier to dry out paper 'bricks' that we can use in the woodburner in winter. We collect cardboard from all the neighbours and surrounding shops to make them. High effort, so not for everyone, but we enjoy it and it supplements our firewood.

In spring/autumn we have at least 50% of the electricity that we need. When the weather is cool we have the woodburner on, which heats our water. We can also cook on the woodburner, dry the laundry etc.

Dec/Jan we only get around 500 watts per day on average, but free heat, water, cooking from the woodburner.

These are crude estimates, but I'd say that currently we're saving at least £1500 PA in energy bills.

So, if inflation stays at 10% (it'll probably go higher in my opinion) our £10,000 outlay has now effectively reduced to £6,000 by the end of year 4. Deduct the £6,000 we're saving in energy bills and we reach break even point by year 4. And of course, if (as many expect) energy costs keep going up, or inflation goes higher, then our system pays for itself sooner. We are immune from power outages (which I love as I have ZERO faith in government right now)..

The generators we have use new battery technology giving them an expected life of at least 10 years.

A wind turbine would probably eliminate reliance on the mains completely, but that's what I was hoping to hear from others about - the annual maintenance charge is putting me off that. How reliable are they?

 

[DirtMechanic]

That's what we thought (not possible) but energy costs have gone SO high in the UK that we revisited. Aside from the eyewatering energy costs moving forwards there's the issue of high inflation - savings in the bank are being wiped out rapidly. So it made sense to me to get savings out of the bank, and invested in things that you'd otherwise need to spend money on further down the line.

Currently inflation is 10% here. If I have £10k in the bank now, it'll only be worth £9k in a year's time. I think there's a HUGE risk that inflation will go much higher, pretty much wiping out savings.

Third issue is that they're predicting rolling power outages for the winter (due to Russian Gas no longer available to Europe).

I would estimate that we spent a total of £10k on a woodburning stove, 2 years supply of seasoned wood (which interestingly has more than DOUBLED in price since then), 2kw solar array and solar generators providing 7kw of energy storage. Due to inflation, if we'd left that £10k in the bank it would now only be worth £9k. We're collecting free wood and seasoning it ourselves so there should be no further wood costs moving forwards. We did all of the installation ourselves, so should be able to maintain it ourselves too - we know how it all works.

Typical annual energy cost would currently be around £2,500 per year (gas and electric combined). This is being frozen for 2 years in the UK, but will likely rise in year 3.

Despite us not having much sun in Scotland our solar system produces more energy than we can use for 6 months of the year. It runs the entire house AND provides enough to heat the water using electric. So for 6 months gas and mains electric usage is completely eliminated. We also mop up the excess by running a dehumidifier to dry out paper 'bricks' that we can use in the woodburner in winter. We collect cardboard from all the neighbours and surrounding shops to make them. High effort, so not for everyone, but we enjoy it and it supplements our firewood.

In spring/autumn we have at least 50% of the electricity that we need. When the weather is cool we have the woodburner on, which heats our water. We can also cook on the woodburner, dry the laundry etc.

Dec/Jan we only get around 500 watts per day on average, but free heat, water, cooking from the woodburner.

These are crude estimates, but I'd say that currently we're saving at least £1500 PA in energy bills.

So, if inflation stays at 10% (it'll probably go higher in my opinion) our £10,000 outlay has now effectively reduced to £6,000 by the end of year 4. Deduct the £6,000 we're saving in energy bills and we reach break even point by year 4. And of course, if (as many expect) energy costs keep going up, or inflation goes higher, then our system pays for itself sooner. We are immune from power outages (which I love as I have ZERO faith in government right now)..

The generators we have use new battery technology giving them an expected life of at least 10 years.

A wind turbine would probably eliminate reliance on the mains completely, but that's what I was hoping to hear from others about - the annual maintenance charge is putting me off that. How reliable are they?

In the same way that electric drills and other small electric motors have brushless motors for efficiency so too I imagine a wind generator would be modernized as well. Were I to examine the idea for my own use, I believe I would start with the 3 phase machines simply based on the production per revolution. There are 2 phase and 1 phase as well, and costs decrease while connectivity simplifies for 1 or 2 line systems. Still, the idea of maximized output is attractive.

 

[Susan BBPM]

In the same way that electric drills and other small electric motors have brushless motors for efficiency so too I imagine a wind generator would be modernized as well. Were I to examine the idea for my own use, I believe I would start with the 3 phase machines simply based on the production per revolution. There are 2 phase and 1 phase as well, and costs decrease while connectivity simplifies for 1 or 2 line systems. Still, the idea of maximized output is attractive.

WAY over my head, but I'll pass that on to my husband who is far more technically minded than me! Thank you.

 

[Sean Regan]

I've reached an age where I'm not obsessed with saving energy.
But I do my bit.
We've LED lightbulbs everywhere.
The radiators are only on in the rooms we mostly occupy, kitchen, both reception rooms, the hall and the towel rail in the bathroom.
We don't close any internal doors apart from the toilet.
Enough heat is generated downstairs to keep the upstairs warm enough.
The heating goes on at 7.00 am as I'm often up at 7.30 to play golf, but goes off at 11.00 pm, although we don't go to bed until around 12.30 a.m. The house stays warm enough until then.
We've thermal lined curtains everywhere.
Our biggest energy user is the tumble dryer, this "seems to be on all day." This is because my wife does a lot of washing and her MS precludes her from hanging it out on a line and I can't be assed to do it. I'd rather pay for the leccy.
Our gas is restricted to just the central heating and hot water via a combi. We do have this rather nice gas fire in the lounge, my wife designed the surround. It replaced a Glow-worm Majorca gas fire/back boiler in 2000, when we moved out for a couple of weeks and had the whole house renovated. The fire was my wife's idea, "in case the new central heating broke down." We've never used it, but it gets checked out at every boiler service.

We're on a fixed price deal from British Gas until. March 2023. At the moment it's going to cost me £2995 this year. High for a small semi, but I'm not bothered. I can easily afford it. That's around £1,000 more than last year.
British Gas say that I won't be paying that much when they get more information from the government


The government say they'll cap the cost at £2,500. This gives no incentive to users who use more to "turn any lights off."
At our advanced age, the cost of solar panels wouldn't be a wise investment.
Having done what I have, I don't give the matter any further thought

 

[Susan BBPM]

I've reached an age where I'm not obsessed with saving energy.
But I do my bit.
We've LED lightbulbs everywhere.
The radiators are only on in the rooms we mostly occupy, kitchen, both reception rooms, the hall and the towel rail in the bathroom.
We don't close any internal doors apart from the toilet.
Enough heat is generated downstairs to keep the upstairs warm enough.
The heating goes on at 7.00 am as I'm often up at 7.30 to play golf, but goes off at 11.00 pm, although we don't go to bed until around 12.30 a.m. The house stays warm enough until then.
We've thermal lined curtains everywhere.
Our biggest energy user is the tumble dryer, this "seems to be on all day." This is because my wife does a lot of washing and her MS precludes her from hanging it out on a line and I can't be assed to do it. I'd rather pay for the leccy.
Our gas is restricted to just the central heating and hot water via a combi. We do have this rather nice gas fire in the lounge, my wife designed the surround. It replaced a Glow-worm Majorca gas fire/back boiler in 2000, when we moved out for a couple of weeks and had the whole house renovated. The fire was my wife's idea, "in case the new central heating broke down." We've never used it, but it gets checked out at every boiler service.

View attachment 93110
We're on a fixed price deal from British Gas until. March 2023. At the moment it's going to cost me £2995 this year. High for a small semi, but I'm not bothered. I can easily afford it. That's around £1,000 more than last year.
British Gas say that I won't be paying that much when they get more information from the government


The government say they'll cap the cost at £2,500. This gives no incentive to users who use more to "turn any lights off."
At our advanced age, the cost of solar panels wouldn't be a wise investment.
Having done what I have, I don't give the matter any further thought

Quite right too!!

To clarify, I'm not an energy saving zealot. For me this is a more selfish pursuit. I find self reliance hugely appealing at the best of times - it's not just in energy, but DIY knowledge, skills, growing food etc. It's always been in me - a desire to be as independent as possible. Recent political climate has really just given me an excuse to do what I've always wanted to do. And it's made it financially viable.

So please don't anyone take this thread as being an attempt to be 'holier than though' or politically correct!!!

 

[Meadowlark]

I've reached an age where I'm not obsessed with saving energy.

I'm right there with you, Sir.

This topic is the source of internal family discourses with one side (not me) obsessed with saving energy and the other (me) obsessed with self-reliance and independence.

Sometimes those line up, but many times they do not.

For example, the old but partially renovated farmhouse we reside in has very old wood windows. However, today's manufactured windows are far more energy efficient. The pro energy savings argument is, of course, to replace them. My position is they are perfectly good windows and replacement windows will never have a break-even point in our lifetime. Better to invest that money in things which make our lives better. And so, it goes.

Solar panels, fanatic desires for off-grid living just aren't high on my priority list. In fact, its not even on the list.

We have ponds stocked with more tasty fish (renewable) than we could ever consume in several lifetimes. We have timber resources(renewable) that on an individual basis are mind boggling. We can and do raise enough beef(renewable) to feed a small army. Other meat sources of protein are readily available in wild hogs, deer, and small game. Chicken houses are currently empty but easily restocked.

Our garden(renewable) provides well over 90% of our veggie supplies and the other % is stuff we can easily do without (wants vs needs). Water, both underground and above ground, is in abundance and renewable and can be pumped via windmills.

Life is grand!

Hence, I feel absolutely zero "guilt" about setting the thermostat where its comfortable rather than where some "tree hugger" thinks it should be set to save energy or save the World.

As Mr. Sean so aptly put it, "I don't give the matter any further thought"

 

[Sean Regan]

Saw an "energy saving" programme on TV the other day. Mostly about obvious things like turning off unused lights.

One suggestion was setting the washing machine at 30 degrees.

A recipe for not getting clothes clean.

On another board, someone complained that there was always gunge left on the tray runners of his dishwasher.

I suggested using an intensive setting a couple of times, rather than "economy."

This cured it.

You can go overboard on energy saving ideas.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Saw an "energy saving" programme on TV the other day. Mostly about obvious things like turning off unused lights.

One suggestion was setting the washing machine at 30 degrees.

A recipe for not getting clothes clean.

On another board, someone complained that there was always gunge left on the tray runners of his dishwasher.

I suggested using an intensive setting a couple of times, rather than "economy."

This cured it.

You can go overboard on energy saving ideas.

But I'm not talking about saving energy. I'm talking about energy independence.

So for example, in the summer months we produce an average of 8kw hours per day. That's 8kw of free electricity every day. We are not impacted by the doubling and tripling of energy prices, OR by the rolling power outages that are being predicted.

In the winter all of our heating, hot water and cooking is free.

If you're producing your own energy you don't need to scrimp when prices go sky high. You aren't impacted when the government ration energy, and you aren't impacted by rolling blackouts.

 

[Sean Regan]

There's no way that in a small suburban English semi, you can be energy independent, The cost of installing "free" energy equipment is far more than the value of energy produced.

Fortunately, we will never have to "scrimp."

 

[Susan BBPM]

There's no way that in a small suburban English semi, you can be energy independent, The cost of installing "free" energy equipment is far more than the value of energy produced.

Fortunately, we will never have to "scrimp."

Actually, as I outlined in detail above - even in my Scottish detached bungalow we're not far off. In 6 months of summer we are energy independent. In winter we have all our water, heating, cooking free and at least some electricity from solar.

Inflation is going through the roof, so getting money out of the bank and 'investing' it on something that will save you money every year moving forwards is a sensible move. Currently savings are losing 10% a year, with hyperinflation become a possibility. Energy costs aren't coming back down in the foreseeable future and will likely go up after the 2 year freeze. Rolling blackouts are on the horizon.

It can be done in a very affordable way. Which is why I started this thread - not for energy SAVING ideas, but to share experiences and ideas on how to get off-grid. For example, I suspect the addition of a wind turbine would give us complete energy efficiency.

But as I posted earlier - I'm not one of these 'green' fanatics trying to convince others to save energy. I'm personally interested in energy self-reliance, so wanted to swap notes with others that have gone down this route.