6 weeks before last frost


Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
6,655
Reaction score
3,332
Location
Tarpley Tx
Hardiness Zone
8b
Country
us
I know everyone is getting antsy about spring planting, getting their seeds started as early as possible and when there is no more chance of a frost, getting all those seedlings into the ground ASAP. Well, getting them into the ground ASAP is a mistake many of you will make as you forgot about the second most important thing, soil temperature. On many vegetables such as tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, melons, okra etc. if you plant before the soil is warm enough at 3 inches deep, your seedlings won't die but their growth is either stopped or slowed greatly. They will still produce albeit to a lessor extent so why plant before the correct time? A plant planted later at the correct soil temperature will catch up and surpass a plant planted in the wrong soil temperature. A soil thermometer is a necessary tool and they are cheap and will last forever. The following link is the best one I have found that has a chart.

 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
3,061
Reaction score
3,010
Location
Birmingham Alabama
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
us
I know everyone is getting antsy about spring planting, getting their seeds started as early as possible and when there is no more chance of a frost, getting all those seedlings into the ground ASAP. Well, getting them into the ground ASAP is a mistake many of you will make as you forgot about the second most important thing, soil temperature. On many vegetables such as tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, melons, okra etc. if you plant before the soil is warm enough at 3 inches deep, your seedlings won't die but their growth is either stopped or slowed greatly. They will still produce albeit to a lessor extent so why plant before the correct time? A plant planted later at the correct soil temperature will catch up and surpass a plant planted in the wrong soil temperature. A soil thermometer is a necessary tool and they are cheap and will last forever. The following link is the best one I have found that has a chart.

@Chuck thanks for the link. I would like to ask what pathogens such as fungi are doing at those ineffective soil temps. I ask as a gardener parting a sterility window, and I know I recognize the post mortem reality of a garden past its prime season, my question wants to know about how much I am accelerating my problems preseason by putting what amounts to a sluggish bait into the soil? Also I would be interested to hear from @zigs a bit if he is done making mushroom marks in the fresh tilling!
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
6,655
Reaction score
3,332
Location
Tarpley Tx
Hardiness Zone
8b
Country
us
@Chuck thanks for the link. I would like to ask what pathogens such as fungi are doing at those ineffective soil temps. I ask as a gardener parting a sterility window, and I know I recognize the post mortem reality of a garden past its prime season, my question wants to know about how much I am accelerating my problems preseason by putting what amounts to a sluggish bait into the soil? Also I would be interested to hear from @zigs a bit if he is done making mushroom marks in the fresh tilling!
AFAIK no pathogens arise beyond the normal, i.e. damping off and root rot pathogens. Planting in low temp soils slows the metabolic processes of plants and I know of no other detriments to the actual growing medium. I don't know for a fact if the growth rate of fungal pathogens accelerate or not. Just from experience I'd say that they slow in growth.

Thank goodness that we here in the colonies have evolved technology to a point where the old methods such as @zigs employs are no longer used.:unsure:
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
3,061
Reaction score
3,010
Location
Birmingham Alabama
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
us
AFAIK no pathogens arise beyond the normal, i.e. damping off and root rot pathogens. Planting in low temp soils slows the metabolic processes of plants and I know of no other detriments to the actual growing medium. I don't know for a fact if the growth rate of fungal pathogens accelerate or not. Just from experience I'd say that they slow in growth.

Thank goodness that we here in the colonies have evolved technology to a point where the old methods such as @zigs employs are no longer used.:unsure:
Not so sure. I heard the three sisters were set on a round pile so He may be on top of something.

I was curious as to the ideal germination and transplant temps of pathogens as a foil against the chart in your excellent link.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
6,655
Reaction score
3,332
Location
Tarpley Tx
Hardiness Zone
8b
Country
us
Not so sure. I heard the three sisters were set on a round pile so He may be on top of something.

I was curious as to the ideal germination and transplant temps of pathogens as a foil against the chart in your excellent link.
Pathogens are something I am curious about but actually know very little. What I'd really like to know is how to get rid of them. If someone ever figures that out they and their unborn progeny can retire.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
3,061
Reaction score
3,010
Location
Birmingham Alabama
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
us
Pathogens are something I am curious about but actually know very little. What I'd really like to know is how to get rid of them. If someone ever figures that out they and their unborn progeny can retire.
Your cornmeal and tricoderma started me on this path.

Oh by the way, wanna know how we officially recognize spring at my house? Here is a hint, it has to do with my Becky.

49405
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
3,061
Reaction score
3,010
Location
Birmingham Alabama
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
us
@zigs so I was being curious because you have such a knowledge of fungi if you could suggest guidance on this idea of "what temp fungi" emergence vs the well recorded study of "food crops" and the temps related to them. Could there be a defense based on temps or timing is the back question. Your knowledgs of fungal nuances has something to say here, but I am not sure I could even form the proper question. Hopefully you have had a warming toddy and can hold forth?
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
227
Reaction score
264
Location
NW Louisiana
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
us
I planted some parsnips and kohrabi. Cabbage will get planted in the next day or so. In a week or so going to start some tomato plants inside so in April their good size plants.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
2,475
Reaction score
1,048
Location
Cheshire
Country
gb
@zigs so I was being curious because you have such a knowledge of fungi if you could suggest guidance on this idea of "what temp fungi" emergence vs the well recorded study of "food crops" and the temps related to them. Could there be a defense based on temps or timing is the back question. Your knowledgs of fungal nuances has something to say here, but I am not sure I could even form the proper question. Hopefully you have had a warming toddy and can hold forth?
This is an interesting question:
If you inoculate a transplanted tree or bush, etc. with mycorrhizal fungi, the least harmful way is usually to move it when it is "dormant", yet mycorrhizal fungi will colonise the roots immediately, so it doesn't seem to be temp. driven. This also has implications for the term "dormant" as the question is begged, "How does the fungus know the plant is there?"
In "Onion White Rot", the sclerotia can lay dormant in the soil for 15-20 years, and will only germinate if they are within 1/2 inch of allium roots." It tends to have some temperature dependency too, as the sclerotia like to germinate at temps between 10-20 C (50-68f).
With late potato blight, a combination of temperature and humidity are required.
Club root needs acidic soil (a little garden lime in the (trans)planting hole will prevent the spores from opening), yet mycorrhizal fungi don't like acid soil.
Potato scab spores can't open at a pH less than 5.1, yet, to prevent powdery mildew spores from opening, a mildly alkaline spray of very dilute milk in water is required.
So as you can see, it's not just plants, it's a complicated picture with fungi too.
 

zigs

Naughty Cactus Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
7,981
Reaction score
8,912
Location
Womenswold, Kent
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
gb
@zigs so I was being curious because you have such a knowledge of fungi if you could suggest guidance on this idea of "what temp fungi" emergence vs the well recorded study of "food crops" and the temps related to them. Could there be a defense based on temps or timing is the back question. Your knowledgs of fungal nuances has something to say here, but I am not sure I could even form the proper question. Hopefully you have had a warming toddy and can hold forth?
Think Bees has answered that question better than I could :)

I do know that with potato/tomato blight it's important to not leave any plant material in the ground to let the fungus overwinter as they can form Oospores :eek:

 
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
884
Reaction score
873
Location
Atlantic Beach, Fl
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
us
I received this article in my email and it reminded me of this thread. I definitely think much of my sowing fails have bee a result of less than optimum soil temps. BTW, there are some good links on this link...

 

Meadowlark

Gardner, Angler, Adjunct Professor, and Rancher
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
98
Reaction score
94
Location
East Texas
Hardiness Zone
8
Country
us
... The following link is the best one I have found that has a chart.

That is an excellent link...matches my experience. Okra is the highest temp plant listed...and that is absolutely correct in my experience. A lot of folks get anxious to transplant tomatoes thinking they can cover them, but the soil temps 3 inches down is what really determines growth and future production. Stunted plants will almost never recover to equal the production of non stunted plants.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
6,655
Reaction score
3,332
Location
Tarpley Tx
Hardiness Zone
8b
Country
us
I started my seeds about a month ago and everything is being repotted into 4" containers.. It is supposed to freeze here again Sunday and Monday but for the past week or so high temps have been in the mid 70's with low's in the 40's. I have my garden ready to go and if soil temps are OK I will start planting out in about 2 weeks but in reality planting out will probably be April 1 or thereabouts.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
2,475
Reaction score
1,048
Location
Cheshire
Country
gb
The traditional date to plant seed potatoes in the UK and Ireland is St. Patrick' Day (17th March).
However, because last year wasn't a good year for potatoes, the quality of those available in the shops is seriously poor, and likely to decline further, until the first of the new potatoes arrive, which will be hugely in demand, with a price to match.
As I am reluctant to buy potatoes on either basis, and, since for me, rice and pasta are occasionals, I bought an extra 2kg pack of first earlies (approx. 30 tubers) and sowed some in pots in the greenhouse in January, which just poked through yesterday, and planted the rest, deeper than normal in a row in the ground.
Since it is likely that the first new potatoes in the shops will not be less than £4 (~$5.50)/kg, and my extra 2kg of seed cost £2 total, I am prepared to accept the smaller yields, in order to avoid this daylight robbery.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top